‘Waco’ Creators Drew & John Erick Dowdle Talk Shedding New Light On An Infamous Story

If you don’t know the Dowdles yet, allow us to introduce you to a duo who are bound to become some of your favorite creators. Brothers Drew and John Erick Dowdle have been behind horror flicks like The Poughkeepsie Tapes and Quarantine, and most recently action thriller No Escape. The two are at it again for new Paramount Network miniseries Waco, a riveting drama headlined by Taylor Kitsch and Michael Shannon that tells the story behind the infamous siege. While Waco could easily go into familiar territory and paint the Branch Davidians as deranged fanatics, the series instead offers a unique, nuanced perspective of both sides of the aisle and sheds new light on a renowned event.

We caught up with the brothers Dowdle at TCA last month and talked developing Waco, directing two very distinct casts, and avoiding the most common pitfalls of depicting cults on screen.

Decider: How did you decide to tackle Waco, and why did you feel like it was the right time to tell this story?

Drew Dowdle: Honestly, we were writing something totally different and we thought an interesting backstory for a character would be to have grown up in a cult. So we started searching for books and first hand accounts of people who had lived in cults and broken away, and he [John Erick] came across David Thibodeau’s book and he was probably a chapter in and was like, “you’ve got to read this.”

The Branch Davidians were just so different than what we were told… Reading this book was just totally, completely counter to what we believed they were. And then one thing led to another and we went out to Maine to meet David [Thibodeau] and soon after that we met [FBI Negotiator] Gary Noesner and started putting these pieces together, thinking this just makes such a complicated, misunderstood story. We didn’t believe we had the true story before, but this one felt like it’d been told incorrectly all these years and it was about time that people see a different side of this.

That’s what I love about the show; even in the first few minutes, it’s pretty clear that you’re not going to make this black and white. Was it important to you from the beginning to give new perspective? Was that what made it so appealing?

John Erick Dowdle: Yeah! While reading Thibodeau’s book it was like, “oh, I like these people.” I felt a kinship… They’re so open, there’s such a sweetness about them. I don’t know, it’s kinda hard not to love them a little bit. As the standoff went on, everything was heard from outside. You never got to see what was happening inside that house. What was it like to have a four-year-old inside Mount Carmel as they started blasting psychological warfare at him? You know, as it goes deeper, it gets bonkers.

DD: You really see the power of media in the story, too. Especially at that time in 1993 – I think this was the first real 24-hour news cycle type of event. What was interesting was after three or four days, there was no new news to report, so they went just deeper and deeper and deeper into this “David Koresh is a lunatic,” and “how weird are these people?” thing, and it became the only thread to pull for the media. By the end of it when they came out, I think a lot of people, and law enforcement included, who started to interview these people thought, “Oh god, these people are different than what we expected.” But after the fire, it was like nobody wanted to hear from them ever again. That story was gone, it was in the past. They didn’t care to hear the Branch Davidians’ side of the story and how they felt it went down. Thibodeau was extremely reluctant to engage for that reason. He hears they want to do a documentary and then it turns into the same “those people are insane” kind of documentary. He was pretty shy.

To humanize them, I’m sure, was really important then. 

DD: Yeah. That felt like it was a story worth telling, anyway. Just because it was misunderstood. 

And having Thibodeau involved was really valuable for you? And for Rory [Culkin, who plays Thibodeau]?

DD: Yeah… All the Branch Davidian cast members used him, and talked to him daily about specific details. And our production designer who was designing Mount Carmel – it was important for us to really nail that. Our costume designer, too, you know, everyone used him as a resource.

And how heavily involved was Noesner? Did he work with Michael Shannon at all?

JED: Oh, yeah, he was involved too.

DD: Absolutely. Michael Shannon, Shea Whigham, and Glenn Fleshler. It was funny, we almost had two different casts. We almost never shot them on same days. We’d have a Branch Davidian week and then we’d have an FBI week. Seeing them [Shannon and Noesner] drinking together… it was so ridiculous. Gary’s like “you can’t act nearly as cool as me when I was doing it,” and [Shannon] is like “well, maybe if you had acted a little better, more people would be alive.” They were so ridiculous together, the two of them. 

He [Noesner] is like this volcano ready to erupt, and he’s so calm. And to see Michael play Gary, the character Gary, to see his increasing frustration level… you start to see the cracks over time. And Mike is so good at giving you bit by bit… this escalation. He’s such a spectacular actor.

You said earlier it was almost like having two separate casts. I think it’s balanced so well in the show, so I’m curious what it was like to build that. Did you naturally find counterparts in law enforcement and the Branch Davidians? 

JED: I mean, yeah. That was kind of the real story.

DD: It was pretty natural, yeah.

JED: I actually didn’t realize until six weeks in…we all went out and I realized some of the people playing Branch Davidians were introducing themselves to the FBI and ATF guys. And I was like “You guys haven’t met?” And then to see them have a few too many drinks and start arguing with each other based on their side. It was really interesting. 

DD: Taylor [Kitsch] kind of stayed out of it completely. And I totally respect this. He knew if he went out and had drinks with Michael Shannon and Shea Whigham they’d be friends immediately. And it was important for him to not get there until the very end of the show. And they hung out a lot the last handful of days. But for him to really see these people as oppressors was important to him.

I have to bring up how stacked the cast is. What was it like reeling in some of the best working actors out there at the moment?

DD: We started with Taylor and Michael… having those two guys, a lot of actors suddenly want to be in it. And then you get to pick and choose a little bit now… Paul Sparks was someone we weren’t totally familiar with. He and Mike are really good friends.

JED: We were like, I hope this guy [Sparks] can play warm. And he was so nuanced and brought so much heart to the role, so much complexity and soul. Drew and I, from early on were like, you can feel how you will about David Koresh. But Steve Schneider, he was the most loyal friend. And I haven’t found a single person who has a bad word to say about him. Not the FBI negotiators. Everybody loves him. And that, for us, was like “okay, let’s tell his story.” And Paul, I love what he did with this.

I’m also curious since Paramount Network is so new – was it the home for Waco from the beginning? What was the process like when you were shopping it around? 

DD: We took it to 14 networks in total and Paramount Network made a really aggressive push for it and it seemed to be a really good home. To us, most importantly, it was just that people saw, creatively, the series as we did and not wanna sensationalize things.

JED: Like, “can we make it a sexy cult?” [Laughing]. We’d have people come in for different jobs on this and they’d be like “I’d see them as really sexy.” Like, no. 

DD: You have no idea what this is.

JED: That was our biggest worry. That we’d sell into someone who would…

Butcher it. 

JED: Yeah, totally.

DD: ‘Cause you could do it so wrong. 

JED: Like, “we want to make one side bad guys and one side good guys.” 

And we’ve seen that so many times. That’s why it’s so interesting to watch you guys shake things up. I can’t wait to see the rest of it. 

JED: It gets bonkers.

DD: It gets crazy.

This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity. 

Waco airs on Paramount Network on Wednesdays at 10pm ET/PT. You can stream it with a cable login.