‘The Walking Dead’: Kevin Carroll Weighs In On Danai Gurira’s Final Episode

Spoilers for The Walking Dead Season 10, Episode 13 “What We Become” past this point.

As widely suspected/reported, this week’s episode of The Walking Dead was the final time we’ll see Michonne (Danai Gurira) on the mothership show. She’s still out there in the world somewhere, in search of her beloved Rick Grimes (Andrew Lincoln), so don’t expect her to be gone for too long. But in between all the stunningly emotional solo moments lay a soft, thoughtful performance by Kevin Carroll as Virgil.

In literature, Virgil is both a poet and a character in Dante’s Divine Comedy, ushering the cycle’s author through Hell and Purgatory. Here, TWD‘s Virgil does the same, taking Michonne to his island home only to capture her and drug her. Virgil is no villain, though, just a misguided man who accidentally caused his own family’s deaths, and wants to help Michonne get past her own pain. He does so, in a sense, but also accidentally leads her to evidence that makes Michonne think Rick — thought dead a decade earlier — might be alive.

Ultimately, Virgil stays on his island, most likely to die for his sins; while Michonne heads on her own weird journey. But thankfully at least for the first part, Michonne — and Gurira — had a friend to help her along.

“The great thing about it is I’ve known Danai for years,” Carroll told Decider over the phone. “And she has become such a force in the entertainment world in itself. So Danai, she was super prepared. This character is one that she’s done for such a long time that she knows… She’s such a pro in this world and at this character, that I really wanted to support her.”

To find out more about how Carroll supported Gurira in her final (and perhaps finest?) hour, what went into quickly building Virgil’s character, and what might be next for the recalcitrant guide, read on:

Decider: We first met Virgil briefly, pre-midseason… Obviously we find out a lot more about him in this episode, but I’m curious, what were you told back then? What was your take on the character in his first episode, versus now; where again, we find out a lot more about what’s going on with him internally?

Kevin Carroll: As with a lot of things, in entertainment things move quickly. So this all happened in a very short amount of time, to sort of close a deal… Because I was working on another show and we had problems with the dates and we couldn’t move things around. So I still have to say that we literally closed the deal in about two days. And so that did not leave a great amount of time to do a lot. But the writers and producers are so expert in this world and love these characters so much that they were able to kind of give me a nice blueprint into dealing with the first episode when Virgil is introduced.

And in that, as an actor, the things that I focused on primarily were just a sense of what the guy was going through, as opposed to the historical context of his life. I wanted to know: what is he going through? What are we dealing with in the now? So I got as much information as I could, and then I was able to take that and, you know— when you’re working with actors like you work with on this show, everybody got so focused. And we were able to just hone in on moment-to-moment stuff.

One thing I really appreciated about this is — outside what all the characterization means, and all the notions that come out of this — was just, for me, looking at Virgil as a father who had a commitment to his family. Right? And this commitment was to make sure that they pass on into the next level of life with their dignity. That’s what I wanted to hold on and work toward in this window of time, for myself. Just to try to be clear enough to get through this world at that time. He’s just a father. He’s a father who had a commitment to his family. And getting back to that island, getting the book for his daughter, to bury her with that book so that she could go on to the next level of life being comfortable — that was the focus. And whatever it took to get to be able to do that was where I put my focus on for this, to begin the journey.

Obviously it’s Danai’s goodbye episode, so that’s a big deal, and there’s a lot of focus on that with the flashbacks, and the alternate universe head trip. But when that’s not happening, it’s pretty much just a two-hander between you, and her. So what was it like working with her on set? What was the relationship like there, particularly since you clearly needed to develop it very quickly?

The great thing about it is I’ve known Danai for years. And she has become such a force in the entertainment world in itself. So Danai, she was super prepared. This character is one that she’s done for such a long time that she knows… She’s such a pro in this world and at this character, that I really wanted to support her. And this being her journey, her ending her journey, something she had worked so hard on for so long… I really wanted to support her in this journey as much as possible. And the way that I figured I could do that was to just be as grounded as I could, to take the journey with her and with the team.

We didn’t really focus on it being her goodbye episode, we didn’t focus on how much the [character] meant to The Walking Dead world. We focused on the moment-to-moment work and locked it in. We both challenged each other in the scenes as much as we could. And the great thing about Danai is she’s an actor’s actor. So if you’re able to figure out the language of earning moments, with somebody that’s going to play hard to get with what they want, and allow you to play hard to get with what you want as a character, then I think you get the best out of each other in working that way. And so that’s really what we did.

Now, after the fact, is sort of when all of the notions of what the episode means to the world and The Walking Dead fans, that’s when we’re focusing on that. Now. And that’s just now really coming into focus. But at the time, it was just about the work.

It’s funny that you say supporting Danai’s journey, because that’s what Virgil is doing in the episode as well as, of course — as was his namesake from The Divine Comedy. Was that anything you talked about on set? Did you feel like you were, sort of, this pseudo-mystical figure ushering her through hell and purgatory?

You know, Alex, we did not get into that really! Because… I say that as Kevin, knowing Danai, and knowing what it is to put the work in as an actor, to want the best for the journey that you’ve been on, in a world that you can appreciate the work of an actor in. Like The Walking Dead world, right? So, as Kevin, I was knowing that. But as a character, this character’s journey — especially at the time — going in and knowing what I knew was about trying to make it right for him … The character didn’t start out thinking about supporting her, right? They had to pull that notion into focus from each other, and earn that from each other, in the work. So the character Virgil started out trying to get that book from the library and make it back to the island to satisfy his needs. And through running into Michonne and figuring out how to get what they needed from each other is where the notion of support, as a character, that’s how it was earned. That’s what it turned into. Right?

I’m talking, I guess, trying to answer these questions from two different points of view… One, as the actor knowing the notion of the responsibility. And the other side of it is speaking from this character’s notion of journey.

Certainly because Virgil is — if not lying, he’s at least obfuscating the truth for a lot of the first half of the episode, everything after that, as a viewer, becomes very suspect. So when he says he has no idea who Rick is, when Michonne discovers the picture of her and Judith on the phone, how did you play that? Did you play that as maybe he had an idea? Or did you play that as, no, he really, honestly has no idea about Rick or that phone?

At this point, Michonne is so on edge that I think every bit of information that you give out has weight to it. And I think self-preservation was one of the ideas that I was thinking about a lot. The safest thing at that time was to say I had absolutely no idea who she was talking about. What he had was, he had been familiar with the boat, but not the person. Yeah, so I think, pretty sure at the time I was thinking more about the notion of not knowing at all. Really not knowing who he was. And of course, we still have no idea where, how, why and when this story goes.

At the end of the episode, Michonne says, essentially, “You’re going to die if you stay on this island.” And we see him… Sure enough, he stayed on that island. But as everything with Walking Dead, bodies or it didn’t happen. Do you think there is a possibility that we might see Virgil again, sometime down the road? If so, what would you want to see from this character, potentially?

I’m not sure what to say in terms of what I would want to see with the character because I think there’s so many great possibilities with a character like Virgil … He’s been left alone, left to his own devices. Virgil could come up with something, want to go and take over some place else.

When I look at who he was, he was trying to make things right for himself in his life because of what he had done. I would love to see him want to make other things right, and go and figure out some way to do that. I have no idea what that would be. The writers on the show, they could come up with much greater stuff than I could. But I would love to see him continue. I don’t know if we’re going to absolutely get much more out of his journey, but I’d be open to it.

Carroll later added in a note sent to Decider:

“To have Virgil continue on this journey of dropping nuggets of humanity into any sort of journey the writers come up with would be great. The most important thing for me is how Virgil becomes a catalyst to think about the human condition so whatever package the writers would want to put that in would be great as long as it continues along the journey of how we think about the world as a community.”

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

The Walking Dead airs Sundays at 9/8c on AMC, and 48 hours earlier on AMC Premiere.

Where to watch The Walking Dead