‘Falcon and Winter Soldier’s’ Erin Kellyman Wants You to Understand the Flag Smashers: “The Root of Them Is Good”

Reading a tall stack of 1980s Captain America comics did nothing to prepare Marvel fans for The Falcon and the Winter Soldier’s bold new take on Flag Smasher. For one thing, it’s Flag Smashers, plural. On top of that, Karl Morgenthau—the well-to-do son of a diplomat—has been adapted as Karli Morgenthau, the scrappy leader of rebels who are always on the run. And while their missions are more or less the same in the comics and on TV (they just want to abolish all borders and unify the world into one people), their methods are drastically different. For example: Karli Morgenthau doesn’t wear a spandex bodysuit and cape and ride around on an air-cycle.

Bringing this super-charged cell leader to life is an actor who’s no stranger to masks and fights: Erin Kellyman, who fans may recognize from Solo: A Star Wars Story where she played the rebellious Enfys Nest. Well, recognize may be a strong word considering Enfys Nest spent most of the film behind a mask. We get to see more of Kellyman in her Marvel debut, and her natural presence grounds the Flag Smashers’ mission in something relatable and even… empathetic. Maybe they aren’t as villainous as their comic book counterpart after all. Maybe they actually have good intentions… intentions that also put them at odds with Falcon and Winter Soldier.

In her big debut in Falcon and Winter Soldier Episode 2 after a brief appearance in the premiere, we got to see a lot of depth in Karli’s character. Sure, she can put Bucky in his place with one super strong punch—but she’s doing it for the greater good, honest! Don’t believe it? Just wait until you read how Kellyman approached her Marvel marauder and how she found depth—and even a bit of heroism—in this comic book villain.

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Decider: Between playing the lead Flag Smasher and Enfys Nest in Star Wars, are you worried about getting typecast as these masked ass-kickers?

Erin Kellyman: [Laughs] No, not worried at all. I feel like If I was getting typecast, it would be a pretty cool thing to get typecast as. But no, I intend to play badass women until the day I die—so get used to it.

In Episode 2, when Bucky first sees you on the truck, he assumes you’re a hostage—and then you give him that smile that says, “I’m about to kick your ass.” Was that smile in the script? What was that moment like on set?

It was actually in the script. Yeah, [head writer] Malcolm [Spellman] hit the nail on the head with that one. We did different variations of it, but yeah, it was written as well.

I always assume that everyone who plays a Marvel superhero is over six feet tall. What is it like fighting these superheroes?

It was fun. It was so much fun. There was a lot of training that went into it and obviously, my stunt double [Hannah Scott] helped a lot. But it was so fun. It’s always so weird, especially when they’re in their hero outfits and I’ve seen them on TV and in movies since I was a kid. So now I am fighting against them. Now I’m the one that they’re fighting, it’s just crazy. It’s so wild. But yeah, it’s a lot of fun.

What was it like putting that mask on? Was it custom molded to your face?

I think it was custom made. I think they had a lot of issues with my hair and trying to make it fit. There was one time they wanted my hair [one way]. Then I put the mask on and I looked like a poodle, it was awful. But no, it was fine. It was good. It gets a little sweaty when you’re trying to speak underneath.

We get to see the other side of the Flag Smashers, too, as they seek shelter and try to escape at the airport. We see this humanity between all of y’all. What was it like between all of you, as a group of actors, as the Flag Smashers, finding that connection?

It was fun. They’re also all great people, and so great to work with and bounce off. It’s interesting, because obviously upon first look, they look like this group of really intense, badass people with these masks on. It’s like, “Jesus—!” But obviously you get to know them. Like you said, you see them seeking refuge and trying to help people and, you know, that the root of them is good, essentially.

What is your point of view on their mission? Like, how did you relate to that as an actor trying to get into Karli’s mindset? Because it is an extreme mindset!

It’s extreme. But I feel that too, like it’s relevant and I think a lot of people feel that what she’s fighting for is equality. She wants things to go back to the way the world was when the blip was happening, right? But she doesn’t agree that 50% of the world’s population should now disappear. That’s not what she’s saying. She’s saying that the way the people that stayed, the way that they came together, that’s what she wants, and that humanity and that unity that people had when their families and things left, that’s what she wants to replicate. And I think it probably came from, you know, people going through all of this trauma that their families and friends have disappeared. And so they group together to stay together and support each other. That’s what she’s trying to replicate. That’s what she’s trying to do, whilst also helping the people who were now displaced due to the fact that 50% of the world’s population just came back.

You can see that humanity when Karli’s friend stays behind to make sure you all get away. You look out the window and we see that you’re crying. 

Yeah, we did that so many times as well. It’s quite tricky to get in that zone so many times, but it was interesting. I feel like it’s important as well to see that scene because it shows that the Flag Smashers are willing to give their life and, obviously, Karli’s team means the world to her, but she was willing to let him go. She knew that there was no arguing with him. He was gonna do it anyway. It was the right thing to do in order to buy time and she knew the outcome. She knew what was going to happen, but she let him go and I think that’s very important to see her do that.

People always ask the actors in Marvel projects if they looked to the comics for inspiration, but your version is so far removed from the black and white costume and big cape version. Instead, did you look towards any real people to inform your performance? 

I honestly feel like Karli is in so many people. The thing that she’s fighting for, I think a lot of people can relate to and see themselves in [that]. I feel like it’s quite a universal thing. Who doesn’t want equality and peace for everybody? But it was also very helpful talking to [director] Kari [Skogland] and [co-executive producer] Zoie [Nagelhout] and them explaining her backstory a little bit more and what she was all about. That was very helpful.

As a new person in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, you’re working alongside some OGs like Anthony Mackie and Sebastian Stan. Was there any hazing or a welcome party?

Anthony threw a party. It wasn’t for me, but he knows how to party! It was very friendly. There was no hazing or anything like that. They were just very welcoming and it was really nice.

I talked to head writer Malcolm Spellman about this as well, the idea that Falcon and the Winter Soldier deals so heavily with The Blip, yet the show was written and mostly filmed before the past yearlong pandemic. What’s it been like living through this past year knowing that Falcon and Winter Soldier kind of touches on this now very real stuff?

I mean, it was so weird. Everything was happening and even like the vaccines—I mean, distributing vaccines to people, even that. I was thinking, God, this is so weird. It’s so relevant. And it was an accident, but it’s happening—but that’s Marvel.

Are there any other heroes or villains that you’d like to see Karli go up against? 

I’m not sure! I feel that Karli is just trying to stay low, get out of the way of people, and just do her job. She doesn’t really want the attention. And you saw that when she took refuge in Episode 2 and the guy that we were seeking refuge from, he said that she was like Robin Hood and getting attention. There’s a little look between Karli and another Flag Smasher like, “Oh, Jesus, what’s happening?” She doesn’t actually want that attention. She just wants to do her job and to look after people. So I’m not too sure she wants to pick any more fights with any more Avengers! I think she’s trying to stay low.

New episodes of The Falcon and the Winter Soldier premiere on Disney+ every Friday.

Stream The Falcon and the Winter Soldier on Disney+