‘The Walking Dead’: Teo Rapp-Olsson Discusses Sebastian’s Finest (?) Hour

Bye bye, little Sebastian (Teo Rapp-Olsson). Spoilers past this point, but in this week’s episode of The Walking Dead, titled “A New Deal”, written by Corey Reed and Kevin Deiboldt and directed by Jeffrey F. January, the final season’s sub-boss Sebastian Milton was killed in the final moments, ripped apart by a walker.

“The second that you feel a person behind you that when you’re looking at them, they look a lot like a real zombie, and you have blood flowing down your clothes, it does a lot of the work for you,” Rapp-Olsson told Decider of his gruesome death scene. “You definitely don’t need to be like, ‘Oh man, what would it be like if I was dying in this situation?’ You can actually just look down and be like, ‘Wow, this is horrifying. Hopefully I never have to see this again.'”

Though the walker invasion of the formerly safe Commonwealth is the brainchild of the imprisoned Lance Hornsby (Josh Hamilton), a former politician/now full-on villain, it’s Sebastian’s own fault that he got ripped to shreds. When tasked with giving a speech to the Commonwealth on Founder’s Day, he was secretly recorded by Max (Margot Bingham) ranting about what he really thought of the government, run by his mother Pamela Milton (Laila Robins). And when it turned out that Max — naturally — played that recording for the assembly, Sebastian turned on her, and tried to push her into the path of a rampaging zombie. That zombie attack turned back on him, and though his throat was torn out while everyone watched, the walker was ultimately taken down by Judith (Cailey Fleming).

To find out more about the episode, including what it was like filming that wild wrestling match, read on.

Decider: Before we get into all the stuff from this episode, I was just curious to hear you talk about working with Laila Robins in particular. How much work did the two of you do developing the mother/son relationship?

Teo Rapp-Olsson: We actually did a significant amount. We got quite close, just because we’re both New York transplants coming over. So we had time both on and off set where we got to chat about the characters. She also comes from the theater world, loves really delving into the characters and the background story. So there was a lot of discussion, like, how did we get here? What was her mothering process, and in the ways that she herself believed it to be a good course not just, “oh, this is the end product, he turned out to be a bad son.” But actually, what was the goal and did the ends justify the means?

And in terms of just getting to work with her, there were multiple times where I’m in scenes with her and I had to remind myself that I’m supposed to be working because I’m getting to watch an unbelievable actor in front of me. And it’s intimidating. But she is an extremely caring actor, she wants to help out the team. So, the scene that we had, when she’s scolding me for not wanting to memorize the speech, we got to do that several times. And she would turn to me between each take and be like, “how was that for you? Do you want a little bit more like, I’m rooting for you? Or do you want a little bit more of the like, don’t even try to come at me with that kind of BS?” She’s an extremely giving actor. You’re very fortunate when you get to work with people like that. And Laila is completely one of those.

Obviously, this is all acting, but Sebastian is such a petty jerk. What’s it like coming on set for the final season, waking in and you’re bossing around Norman Reedus. You’re yelling at Melissa McBride and Jeffrey Dean Morgan. What was that experience like?

It is simultaneously the most fun you could ever have at work. And it’s insanely intimidating. Josh McDermott is the first person I got to meet from the cast, and he couldn’t have been more supporting. Because, coming into a space with the scale of The Walking Dead, in the last season is already scary enough, but then, to be a problem for everybody only adds to that, when you’re really going out of your way to try to piss everybody off. And if you’re doing your job well, then you have pissed them off. And Josh was just saying, “we’re here to support each other, we are only as strong as our weakest link,” that kind of stuff. And it completely held true. Every time we would finish takes, I would know that everybody had my back when I was being a complete asshole to everybody. So, that’s how I knew, “Okay, I’m in the right place, and everybody seems to be supporting this kind of work.”

With Norm, he’s an incredible actor and sometimes it’s almost too good. Because I’m sitting there, and especially the first time I met him, kinda like, “Please don’t kill me. Please don’t kill me. I hope this is not pissing you off.” But we had a really good rapport; there was some point where he was talking to [director] Michael [Satrazemis] who then passed this on to me, and it was one of the highest compliments, but he just turned to Michael at one point was like [does Norman Reedus voice] “Man, that kid plays an asshole so well.” I was just like, “Oh my God. That’s – I mean, if Norman Reedus thinks you can play an asshole then you’re already good in life.”

This isn’t gonna come through on the transcription but: good Norman Reedus impression.

[Laughs] You can put that in brackets.

You have this great scene with Max in the office where you’re really digging into each other. He’s yelling at her, she’s getting at him about the speech. Her goal at that point is to record him so they can play it later. He doesn’t know that. But what do you think’s going through his head in that moment? Clearly, it plays out much later after the wrestling match. But what was the arc that you were playing there in that scene?

Something – and I took my time with this whole speech, especially because I think playing a bad guy is a very easy trap to fall into, which is, he’s just bad. Versus, there’s a reason, there’s a method to the madness. Unless he’s from the seventh rung of hell, there’s actually probably more to it. That speech comes from a place of, “I’ve seen how the sausage gets made from a very young age. And I’m jaded by it. I don’t see this as a democratic system. I’ve watched nothing but propaganda from day one, but unlike most people, from day one, I also got to see the lie.” Here’s somebody trying to press to the better angels. And I’m telling her, “you’re being naive to even assume so.” So there’s an aspect of this that I, at least my goal or intention was, it isn’t just simply an evil speech or something, but it is kind of a, “get real. Like, you’ve seen this too, you can’t tell me that this is this perfect society that we keep turning around to everybody else to talk about. The door is closed, it’s just you and me here. Don’t feed me that BS, because I’m a little tired of it. And of course, I’m going to keep going along with it because I was born into this. But I don’t think it’s true.” One of the toughest parts for Sebastian is he wasn’t necessarily born to do this. But unfortunately for him, he was born into a family, that, that’s a prerequisite. It doesn’t matter whether or not you felt like you could do it. You’re a Kennedy, you have to be prepared to rise to that mantle.

There’s a certain sense of, he’s actually a very honest character. He’s telling Max these things, he doesn’t necessarily have the guile to know she’s recording it, and that she’s tricking him. But that’s sort of what he’s been all along, is he’s been pretty straight up with everybody, I would say.

Yeah, I mean, in a lot of ways, I do think he is a mirror of the true face of the Commonwealth. And it’s gross, and it’s nasty, and it shows what the 1% is doing behind everybody’s backs. But he’s never really lied in that sense. I mean, of course, he puts on the same face that everybody else does. But there is an honesty that we haven’t seen from a lot of the other high ranking members of the Commonwealth. You take [Lance] Hornsby, he has risen to that rank. You take my mother, she was born to the same family, but obviously, tried as best as she could and has risen to the occasion. You look at the fact that she has created a nation state that’s larger than anything we’ve ever seen in this post-apocalyptic world. She’s doing something right; whether it’s moralistically right, obviously, is up for debate. But, in terms of the ends justifying the means, from her mindset, it is. I don’t think Sebastian has that quality, or at least certainly doesn’t agree that it does justify the means, but is too small of a pawn at this point in his life to be a part of the change.

Totally opposite end of the spectrum, what was it like filming the wrestling match scene?

Oh my God, it was the most fun thing on earth. I grew up actually watching like WWF and to get a front row seat to that is insane. The other part is, it amounts to whatever, 45 seconds of television. That takes almost half a day to shoot that. And you get to watch these guys do it over and over again and – talk about people at the height of what they do. They’re incredible, like acrobatic artists, physically well-built humans. You’re obviously sitting there questioning every decision you made to not go to the gym that month or year. But it’s just so cool to watch that at point blank range. And all the times where I’m screaming or cheering is probably the easiest acting job I’ve ever had because I’m just going like, “holy crap. You just completely choke slammed that guy, that’s insane.”

Immediately following this we get the speech scene where he does the classic, “I’m starting to read it. Tear it up, throw it away. No, I’m gonna wing it.” Which is great. Getting back to the honesty thing, I read it as he legit means what he’s saying these. He was inspired by Max. Is that how you were playing it?

Yes. Yeah. I felt, and I talked with the directors on this, I talked even with Greg [Nicotero], and I talked with Margot [Bingham] who plays Max, because she has that moment at the very end where she calls me out in our last scene, and basically is like, “you don’t have to be an asshole. You’re just doing this because nobody is expecting any better of you. And then if you did, you’re too scared to attempt and maybe fail.” And this is his time finally going, “You know what, I’m gonna listen to that. I’m not going to give this half baked speech that was clearly prepared by a writer where I’m going to be looking down at the page. I’m going to speak to the audience. And to some degree, own my actions, obviously still be saved from the repercussions. But maybe this is the path.”

And kind of leave the audience wondering, is there a world where maybe this was a little premature, and obviously, it’s a little too little too late. But what I always love about The Walking Dead is it’s a moralistically gray place. It isn’t always as simple as black and white. He has been a constant thorn in the side of this group since the second he has emerged. But maybe, maybe, maybe this wasn’t the only outcome that could have existed.

Sebastian immediately turns to Max and he says, “You bitch,” which is so hard to hear. What was it like playing that, going from that moment of almost triumph to furious anger?

When we were shooting it, there was always a moment where I would look to Margot after, finishing and have a second of like, “Hey, thank you for believing me when nobody else has. And now I’m gonna listen to the speech,” knowing I did a good job, I can tell, because the reception I got walking up here was lukewarm at best, probably cold. And the reception I’m getting as I’m leaving is actually a lot warmer, people are going, “Oh, wow, that’s the Milton that we want to see.” And then to instantly have it so quickly destroyed by something that was so exceedingly personal. Something that is the farthest thing from an evil thing that I’ve said, it’s actually the most honest thing I’ve said, it comes from a place of genuineness, rather than, “Oh, they’re all scum, or they’re plebeians.” No, he’s actually saying the system is broken. And to think anything else is childish if you are in the inner circle, and it’s not good. I’m not saying that it’s a good thing, but it’s the reality.

And so to have that privacy, and that moment between us broken by her playing it for everybody is the final straw, because he also knows now there is no coming back from this… For every Machiavellian ability that he has to turn the fact that he sent people to their deaths for money, there’s no getting away from this one. That’s his voice. His mom is – I mean, he’s as good as done, no matter what. But because Sebastian is young and impetuous, he doesn’t have the ability to think that extra step ahead, so his impulse is what he follows which is, “she’s dead, I need to kill her.” That moment of finally looking to her and realizing, “oh my god there’s only one explanation, it was you and therefore you are the center of my iron wrath,” that is all I’m focused on, I’m not focused on what does next week look like when we still have to play this down, and now add that I ran through the crowd chasing some girl, it’s like, “no this is the only thing I am focused on right now.”

This leads to him dying, getting ripped apart by walkers as everybody stands around and watches, except for Judith. What was it like playing that, having that Walker bite your throat out, playing that actually bloody, gory moment?

Playing the moment is insane as an actor because I’ve never gotten to be a part of something of this scale. I’ve done Romeo and Juliet where I get to, you know, drink some poison and pretend to die. But to go through a makeup chair, the effects, prosthetics on the neck like that, can take about an hour and a half. You get to set, you have five or six people who are specifically tasked with prepping you and the machines around you for this one moment. And the reality is you get one shot at it, even on the biggest budget shows like this, you get one shot because it’s not about money to a certain point, it’s about time. Because if we needed to redo all this, it would mean me having to go into a VFX trailer, get this version of the neck taken off, put on a new version, wash me off, dry me off, do all this stuff. This could take us days if you want a second chance at this.

I’ve been lucky enough, I’ve worked enough times, but there is a certain level of weight of going, “okay, when they yell action let’s get this in one. Let’s make sure that I have the blood curdling scream, the second we start shooting.” But the good news is that the second that you feel a person behind you that when you’re looking at them, they look a lot like a real zombie, and you have blood flowing down your clothes, it does a lot of the work for you. You definitely don’t need to be like, “Oh man, what would it be like if I was dying in this situation?” You can actually just look down and be like, “Wow, this is horrifying. Hopefully I never have to see this again.” But yeah, it’s a great rehearsal for the horrifying reality of a real zombie attack.

This interview has been edited for clarity and length.

The Walking Dead airs Sundays at 9/8c on AMC, and streams a week early on AMC+.