‘Wheel of Time’ Star Dónal Finn Warns Mat Cauthon’s Relationship With the Ruby Dagger is Still “An Everyday Battle”

The Wheel of Time Season 2 was a big one for one Mat Cauthon (Dónal Finn). He was imprisoned in Tar Valon by the Red Ajah, singled out as an easy mark by none other than the head of the Forsaken, Ishamael (Fares Fares), and given the awful news by new pal Min (Kae Alexander) that he was fated to kill best friend Rand al’Thor (Josha Stradowski). Off-screen, things were no less dramatic for the character. After Barney Harris, the original actor cast as Mat, abruptly departed the Prime Video production during Season 1, Irish actor Dónal Finn was tapped to take over the character in Season 2. Finn magically managed to not only fit in seamlessly with the rest of The Wheel of Time cast, but won over the show’s rabid fans with his portrayal of the fan favorite character.

Mat’s Wheel of Time Season 2 journey crescendoes with several moments of bittersweet triumph. He resists the pull of the evil ruby dagger that’s been haunting him since Season 1, transforming the dark object into a spear he can wield in battle. Then, Mat blows the legendary Horn of Valere, bringing the Heroes of the Horn to the good guys’ rescue during a pivotal final battle against the Seanchan. More over, by blowing the Horn, Mat discovers that he’s not necessarily fated for the Darkness. In fact, he is one of the great Heroes of the Horn, reborn time and time again to battle evil.

Decider recently had the pleasure of chatting with the new Mat Cauthon, Dónal Finn, about all of Mat’s incredible Season 2 moments. Finn recounted how “colossal” it felt blowing the Horn of Valere, teased that the ruby dagger might yet have a hold on Mat, and gave his interpretation of Mat’s tea-induced nightmares. The only disappointment? He never did get to meet the author’s cat*…

DECIDER: My cat just woke up so he might be running in and out, but we’ll see.

DÓNAL FINN: No problem at all. It would be lovely to meet your cat.

I am a huge Mat fan from the books. So I love what happens to him in the finale. What was it like to blow the Horn of the Valere? What was it logistically like to have to shoot the arrival of the heroes? And what does it mean for the character of Mat to realize that he’s a hero?

Yeah, I mean, what was it like to blow the Horn of Valere? Those were pretty amazing days on set. This is a story that I feel a lot of The Wheel of Time community know, but like there’s a kind of an unbelievable fortune in that the location where we filmed those scenes was actually, I had a connection to that place. While I was in the process of auditioning for Wheel of Time, I was in Morocco working on another job. The place where my amazing agent rang me and said, “I think, you know, that you need to go to Prague. And that it might be good news or whatever,” was when I was in that location.

It was also my last day on set. Those are some of the last scenes that I shot as part of Season 2. The whole journey of joining the show and then going through the arc of that character and ending up at that point was colossal.

It was a gray scrape day on set to get stuck into what is really, you know, understandably any young lad’s dream. We’ve all watched Gladiator or Master and Commander and kind of thought, “It would be amazing to do that.” I felt like I got a sense of what that would be like and that was something I think maybe that I was able to connect to the character with as well. Because I think while the stakes are so high for Mat in that moment, he’s also going, “I can’t believe I’m doing this, you know?” So, yeah, I felt kind of in tune, in sequence with Mat on those days of filming and that was obviously really advantageous to performance.

Speaking of Mat’s sort of incredulity, I mean, he seems to immediately have gotten a little bit more martial combat knowledge and immediately has some Old Tongue knowledge. Is that something that came from the Horn, do you think? Will it stay afterwards? Or is it dependent upon the Horn in the show version?

I mean, I think it is some — I think it’s definitely connected to blowing the Horn. I think that’s the only explanation for it? My understanding — the way that I kind of inhabited it and interpreted it to make sense for me — is that when I blow the Horn, those past heroes are presented to me, and that in order for me to remember them, in order for them to be there for me, I must have been granted that through blowing the Horn. And I think, you know, that taps into the Old Tongue. I think that taps into, you know, Mat says, “I remember.” And I think it’s the qualities, the memories, and the skills and the language of a previous life or a previous kind of experience that he had being channeled into that into that current moment. At a pivotal time, at a time that he needs to be able to have access to that.

In that Episode, too, Mat is finally able to conquer the temptation of the dagger which has haunted him for the last two seasons basically. He turns it into a spear. Where did you think he came up with that idea? Has he officially broken the curse? And what was it like learning how to do combat with the spear?

Yeah, I mean, it was unreal having the time and the resources with the incredible stunts team, Filmka, in Prague. To go in there every day and to train with them, it just felt an exceptionally lucky thing for me to be able to experience that. Part of my work and preparation was then kind of going in training with them and building up a routine kind of like you know, week by week. Like, here are some core skills and if you know how to do this, then we’d be able to apply it at any given moment, whether it’s like spinning the staff around or like being able to run and spin it at the same time. I just feel very lucky like that kind of part of my job. I think it’s a great, great resource.

Should we intuit that Mat is done with the dagger? He’s conquered it, or do you think there’s a way it could still be an object of temptation for him down the line?

Yeah, I mean, without giving any spoilers, I think it is natural to imagine that these things are always part of your life. If you have an obsession or desire or craving or something, you know, in the ways that he kind of does in the show, I think that’s an everyday battle. That’s how I interpret it. And that’s kind of without — I can’t really say whether that’s in the future or not, you know? But that’s how I interpret it anyway, for my understanding of that part of Mat’s journey going forward.

A lot of fans have joked that Mat only has one main costume throughout the second season because of budgetary reasons, that they blew the money elsewhere. How did you feel having just one set of duds the whole time? And can you tease if Mat will perhaps get a costume change in the future or is he just stuck wearing that one outfit forever?

I felt pretty okay with the costume in Season 2 because I think there was so many moving parts to this, to this work for me. Coming in on this season, maybe it just felt like one less thing to worry about, you know? Both me and Mat probably had a sense of like that Steve Jobs thing where he just wore his Levis and his 501s and his New Balance and his polo neck. I think they call it decision fatigue. Like if you pick your clothes out the day before and it’s pretty much a uniform, then you get to focus on what really matters. I think that’s probably how I felt and maybe how Mat felt.

But having said that, I think where we see him at the end of Season 2, like he definitely needs a bath. And if he’s gonna have a bath, he may as well change his clothes. I don’t think we’ll see that jacket again, but if it came back, I wouldn’t be opposed. I think it’s pretty, pretty, pretty cozy.

One point of contention amongst the fans is the sequence when Ishamael gives Mat the tea. First of all, why does Mat trust a Forsaken enough to drink the tea that he’s offering? But second of all, did you interpret what Mat saw to be visions of his past? Were they tricks? Were they his future? I’m curious what you personally thought Mat was experiencing.

I mean, in the performance of it, he’s just trying to understand the experience in a life or death, fight or flight, kind of pleading for help kind of way. It isn’t until much later after that after that experience that he will even try to come close to figuring out what he was experiencing. Also I think part of Mat’s character is that — it’s really uncomfortable, it’s really dark — there’s probably a bit of him that may not really want to speak about. He may not really want to investigate it, and try and kind of bury that. I think that would be a very natural thing for the character to do.

Yeah, I think in the performing of those moments, he is just trying to cling on to any sense of — I think what’s going through his head there is: “I’ve drank this tea and I might die.” You know, I think these are the things that are flashing through my head before, like they’re all impulses from my brain trying to stimulate me just to stay alive. Because, you know, I think I might be drinking something that might kill me. I think Mat’s just trying to fight for any sense of sanity, any sense of believing that he’s still in the room that he was in when he drank the tea. I think he was just fighting to ground himself in those moments. 

*Editor’s note: the author’s cat sadly never appeared during the interview. 

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.