Anna Sawai Takes Us Inside Mariko’s Thrilling, Tragic End in ‘Shōgun’ Episode 9 “Crimson Sky”

Shōgun Episode 9 “Crimson Sky” is named after Toranaga’s (Hiroyuki Sanada) daring battle plan to conquer Osaka with all of his military might. As it happens, however, Toranaga’s true strength wasn’t in his vast army swallowed up by that pesky earthquake or in the chain shot tactics John Blackthorne (Cosmo Jarvis) dutifully taught his men. No, Toranaga’s most cunning attack came from none other than Toda Mariko (Anna Sawai). This week’s penultimate episode of the FX hit reveals how the esteemed samurai lady, expert translator, and devout Catholic is able to destabilize Ishido’s (Takehiro Hira) hold on the regents, their vassals, and Lady Ochiba (Fumi Nikaido) by staying loyal to her lord at all costs…

**Spoilers for Shōgun Episode 9 “Crimson Sky,” now streaming on Hulu**

By now Shōgun fans know that Toda Mariko was born Akechi Mariko, the daughter of Akechi Jinsai (Yutaka Takeuchi), a noble samurai who cursed his whole line to death when he assassinated the brutal despot Kuroda (Eijiro Ozaki). Mariko’s life was spared only because she was already married to Buntaro (Shinnosuke Abe), the brutish, but loyal, warrior son of Toda Hiromatsu (Tokuma Nishioka), Toranaga’s best friend and most trusted advisor.

Last week, Hiromatsu committed seppuku in a deadly ruse to save Toranaga’s scheme from being discovered by his enemies. In order for Toranaga to defeat Ishido and the other regents, he needed his foes in Osaka to believe he had truly and utterly given up. In fact, he was preparing to make his ultimate strike on Osaka, via Mariko.

Toranaga explains to Mariko that her father arranged her marriage to Buntaro specifically to spare her life so she could exact vengeance on their enemies later. This would be her opportunity.

Upon arriving in Osaka, Mariko declares to Ishido that as she is not a “hostage,” she will escort Toranaga’s consorts to Edo the next day. It is a dangerous ploy to reveal that she and all the other nobles are in fact being held against their will. After attempting to fight her way through Ishido’s men to no avail, but at the loss of many samurai, Mariko announces that there is no way to honor her lord’s wishes. She therefore must commit seppuku to absolve herself of the shame.

Even though Blackthorne tries repeatedly to talk Mariko out of this sacrifice, when no one steps forward to be her second — thereby ensuring she will not go to hell as a Christian for dying by suicide — he volunteers. The gesture is profound, but ultimately unnecessary. Ishido halts the ritual at the last second…only to plot with Yabushige (Tadanobu Asano) to help ninjas infiltrate Team Toranaga’s quarters later that night. Rather than accept capture, Mariko sacrifices herself to save the others.

When Decider spoke with Anna Sawai minutes before the Shōgun panel at Winter 2024 TCA, we were only able to briefly touch upon Mariko’s stand agains Ishido’s men in the yard. Sawai revealed that she trained “a lot…in Japan before going to Vancouver and having a bootcamp,” but that she only had “two rehearsals before the day.” Luckily, Decider was able to resume our conversation with Sawai yesterday. She opened up about what it meant to Mariko that Blackthorne stepped up as her second, why her scenes with Ochiba were “bittersweet,” and why she wants fans to remember Mariko as an Akechi and not a Toda…

DECIDER: We spoke briefly at TCA and I’d asked you about the martial arts aspect of this episode, but I didn’t get a chance to ask you about anything beyond the fight choreography. When she’s standing up to Ishido’s men in the yard, what was that emotional journey like? Because Marilo has to watch man after man, loyal to her service, fall for her. I’m just curious what that was like emotionally for you and for the character.

ANNA SAWAI: I just remember seeing everyone fall and then, finally, when one samurai, one person, comes in front of her and they bow. Honestly, it broke my heart. I think that was the hardest part. Where the physicality of it all, it is tough, but it’s also kind of fun to be able to, you know, just fight. But mentally it was a lot just to process the fact that so many people were dying — It’s not for her. Because she is, in the end, serving her lord. [It’s] for the lord. But there was a scene that we actually shot, which I think they cut because of the time limit that we have in one episode, but she goes into a corner after all of this and she cries for all the men that died. So it was very, very emotional.

And it ends with her declaring she will commit seppuku. I asked Cosmo Jarvis about Blackthorne’s decision to second Mariko, which isn’t in the book, but is obviously very hard for him to do, but very important. What does it mean for her that he’s willing to stand up and do that when no one else will?

I think that it’s when she realizes how much she means to him. Because he is a Protestant and he’s going against his religion and he’s taking her over himself. He’s allowing her to die a loyal Catholic and a samurai. So I think it’s the biggest gesture of love that she feels from him. It’s a very romantic thing for her and she’s in a way kind of seeing him in different eyes because of what this means.

And is she ready to die that moment or is there any kind of fear that’s creeping in? Because she seems a little more trepidatious to die than we were perhaps led to believe she would be.

So what I was feeling is that she is happy to do this for her lord because with this, it sends out a big message. But seeing her son in the right hand corner, I was feeling so bad about having to show him the moment that she dies. Putting him in the same situation as she was where she is left alone and her whole family had to go into the other world. And so I was feeling a lot of mixed emotions because, yeah, it’s not something that you want to show your own kid, but it’s something that you have to do.

Following up on that, I was really struck, I feel like the one moment where you kind of see Mariko’s resolve potentially shake is when her son comes to her and pleads with her to not follow through on her plan to serve Toranaga. What does that conversation mean for her that her son is showing he can speak Portuguese, he’s showing his resolve to the Christianity, he talks about being ashamed of his family line… What was going through your mind and Mariko’s mind in that moment?

I think that it hurts her to see that Kiyama-sama (Hiromoto Ida) is like taking over his, you know, his beliefs. Like he doesn’t really understand her point of view. He has his own and she thinks that he doesn’t fully understand what’s happening. And she doesn’t want him to be as ashamed of his family because Mariko believes, that despite how other people see it, her father did something that had to be done. So I think that she wishes that he would see it from her eyes. But then again, like his effort in like trying to learn Portuguese and, you know, wanting what he believes is right, that’s something that is touching. But I think that it breaks your heart to see that he is kind of on the other side of it.

I rewatched the episode yesterday and I noticed all these little grace notes throughout where, whether it’s the very end where she uses her father’s name to protest the bombing or when she stands up to Ishido and says, “I am no peasant,” it seems like after all these episodes of watching her suppress that lineage, she’s owning it. What does that mean for you? And why do you think this is the moment where she finally is like, “No, I’m my father’s daughter and that name’s important”?

I believe that the first time that she does say her father’s name is in that scene in front of Ishido-sama. It was a very emotional thing for me because it means a lot, you know? And in the book, I think she’s supposed to say “Toda Mariko.” But we had a conversation — [episode writers] Rachel [Kondo], Caillin [Puente], and myself — and we were like, “We want to use her last name from her father’s side because that is who she is.” She’s not a Toda. She is an Akechi and she is also avenging her family at the same time. She’s not just doing it for her lord, but she is avenging her family and she’s doing it for herself as well.

So, it was very intentional and it felt very powerful and I hope that people remember her as an Akechi rather than a Toda.

Thinking of that moment, you know, they’re in that food storage area. Blackthorne is trying to save them all and your character says, “Let it come,” and she moves forward. There’s a resolve. There’s a peacefulness. Can you talk about filming that scene and what’s going through her mind and just sharing that final moment with Blackthorne?

Yeah. I mean, it’s such a brief moment that I wish that we could hear what she was going through, but I think that it’s the acceptance of what’s meant to happen, will happen. If this is the way that it’s going to turn out, then she’s not going to be captured by the ninjas. There’s no way. Because that means that she’s not able to continue Toranaga’s plan. So if it means being bombed and passing and still being able to send that message, then she’s happy to do it. So it’s just like we have to accept what’s [happening], we can’t fight it. And I think that’s the whole thing with Blackthorne’s character, he’s trying to control it. He’s trying to get his way. He’s going against everything. And Mariko is a lot more accepting and, you know, just following her path in a way that’s a little bit more Zen.

Speaking of Blackthorne, before that happens, he goes to her chamber. It kind of feels like a mirror of Episode 4, but now he’s the one coming to her. What does it mean that she kind of gives herself up to him in that moment and pretty much in the open in Osaka? It seems less secretive than I think it was in Anjiro.

It does feel open, but I’m sure that it felt a little bit more private. Like there was no way that she was going to be like, “Okay! Well, Blackthorne and I are going to be together now!” But I think that it’s just like seeing him come up, about to second her — that changed everything for her. She is able to go back to her lord and tell him that she was able to get the hostages free. And so I think that for her, it was just a moment of like, “I deserve this. We deserve this. We accept each other, we see each other and we can share this moment together.”

Speaking of Blackthorne and Mariko’s relationship, I was really taken aback — not taken aback, per se — but surprised during my coverage early on this season that people watching the show were confused about who went to Blackthorne in the night. Did that surprise you? Were you aware of this?

Yeah. Well, when we shot it, I was like, “Okay, we’re playing it so that no one knows that it’s her.” But then, when you’re following the story, it’s like, it’s got to be her. The way that she’s coy about it, you know that something was up. So when people were commenting, like, “Was that you? Was that actually you?” I was like, “Yeah?” I think it was obvious_, but maybe not. Maybe some people are still confused about it and maybe that’s okay because they do get a moment later on and no one needs to know. So whatever people think about it is, you know, what happened.

Shifting gears, I kind of love the relationship between Mariko and Lady Ochiba and how importantly that comes into play in this episode. But from what I could gather you and Fumi Nikaido only have like two real scenes together where you interact. Once with the flashback and this one moment in the garden. So I’m curious how you guys built that very nuanced female friendship.

I think we didn’t spend a lot of time together. We did meet at a park one time and we had a nice garden dinner at one point. But we kept it similar to the relationship that Mariko had with Ochiba because it felt so special that I knew certain bits of her. Like the Ochiba of today, is not the person she knows. So it was very special doing the wedding scene with her and the childhood flashbacks. And once we were in front of Ishido and at the garden at the palace, it really felt like she was missing her friend. She wishes that she could just shake her up and be like, “What is happening with us? Why has society and politics forced us to separate?”  And I think it played out so well for me. It was so amazing and I did feel that connection where it’s like I know you, but there’s a distance there. So yeah, I love that scene. I feel like that was very special to shoot and it felt so bittersweet with her.

You mentioned Ishido… Mariko has a great showdown with Ishido where she’s giving him her lineage and kind of inferring he’s peasant-born. What was that like? And also, because I didn’t even realize this until recently, but he plays your father in Monarch: Legacy of Monsters. What was it like working on two very different projects with different vibes with Takehiro Hira?

The surprising thing is the first time we worked together, he was playing my fiance’s brother. So he was like the brother-in-law. So we played very different relationships in the past. But I don’t know. I feel like in a way, it was strange to think about the relationship that they were going to have, but when you’re on set, you just see them as a character. Or at least I did. So it was just nice seeing him as the evil lord. Yeah, it was fun. I really like Take. He’s a fun dude.

I watched your interview on Colbert  and you talked about all the things you learned, whether it was combat skills or Mariko’s walk. I’m curious, did anything in the emotional journey of playing Mariko teach you anything about yourself? Is there something that you take with you now since finishing the project?

I feel like I’ve learned a lot as an actor because it was my first time, like, really physically getting into it. Because it was so foreign from how I am. But emotionally? I mean, she’s allowed me to ask a lot of questions that I wouldn’t have asked if I hadn’t done this series. You know, things that are more about life. What do I want in my life? How do I want to live the rest of maybe like 50 years that I have left in this world? What do I want to achieve? What is freedom? Things like that. You know, it’s so deep and I don’t have an answer yet, but it’s allowed me to really kind of look within myself because Mariko is so kind of spiritual in that way.

This interview has been formatted and edited for clarity.