Talk:Lauren Southern: Difference between revisions

The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12089138 https://citizen.co.za/news/south-africa/1966721/lauren-southern-releases-terrifying-controversial-farm-murders-documentary/

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The following Wikipedia contributor may be personally or professionally connected to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view. Vandelay451 (talk · contribs) This user has contributed to the article.

She has been described as alt-right and a white nationalist.[4][5]

This should read "She has been described by her critics as" to be honest. Wikipedia hasn't been honest in a decade or so though now, they're just a copy paste of media hacks who play their role in perpetuating witch hunt tags against anyone the establishment dislikes by labelling them all nazi's or white supreeeemists. But here's hoping one editor with a spine and moral compass appreciates that she doesn't identify as that, ran as a libertarian, holds libertarian views, and it's only her critics who say this and write it correctly in an unbiased NPOV way. 121.210.33.50 (talk) 10:10, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia only accepts reliable secondary sources. If you believe you can find one contradicting the article's current statement, then that change can be made. I'd recommend trying to get consensus here first given how frequently this has been an issue. As an aside, it is bad wikipedia etiquette to question the motivations of wikipedians volunteering their time to edit wikipedia in good faith.Elec junto (talk) 02:45, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I vote to highlight the fact that it's a description of her by left wing publications. Vice and Huffpost are unapologeticaly left win even far left in the case of HP.Belevalo (talk) 18:15, 20 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I counter this vote and cancel it out in the affirmative. It's not relevant whether they are perceived to be left wing or right wing as this article isn't about them. GreenFrogsGoRibbit (talk) 09:55, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No. Look dude, this rant sorta seems like you and WP:NONAZIS counter each other. I tried to assume WP:GOODFAITH, but I can't with the whole Wikipedia hasn't been honest in a decade or so though now, they're just a copy paste of media hacks. The whole "This blatant white supremacist is actually NOT a white supremacist. The media and society are just trying to get her for being an independent thinker! She's definitely not a white supremacist, you just don't like what she has to say snowflake and ur trying to ruin her life by calling her what she unequivocally is" is a typical alt-right talking points used by racists who aren't ready to take that final step and embrace there KKK hoods, while nevertheless doing everything the KKK does. WP:NPOV defends calling her what she is, rather than changing it for WP:Censored sake. If you don't see the first violation, then acknowledge the blatant WP:COI violation and don't edit this page. I mean no violation of WP:ADHOMINEM. GreenFrogsGoRibbit (talk) 09:55, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You are obviously biased. Too obviously. Her political views already covered in the «Views» section, there is no need to highlight it in the second sentence of the article... Just wow. It's the shame how Wikipedia became a platform for a political wars. — WitcherGeralt (talk) 04:06, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there is a need. The second sentence is part of the introduction, which, according to WP:LEDE, is supposed to summarize the article. --Hob Gadling (talk) 07:54, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What's happening with Wikipedia is really sad. When it became Ok to label a person as a nazi just for being conservative and advocating freedom of speech? You should be ashamed of yourself, people, it's because of you such a useless resource as Conservapedia exist. When I first heard of it, I thought it was a joke, when I knew it wasn't I was really surprised. Now I see the roots of it, Wikipedia is not neutral anymore. — WitcherGeralt (talk) 04:33, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Replying to the non-rant part of this, the half-sentence "label a person as a nazi just for being conservative and advocating freedom of speech". (The rest of your contribution does not belong here because it is not about improving the article.)

You are lying. The article does not call her a nazi. There are other, more nuanced descriptions in the article, and they are lifted straight from reliable sources calling her that. If you want to remove those, you need to make a case, on Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Perennial sources, that all those sources are not reliable. But if you want to convince people, your reasoning there needs to be far, far better than the reasoning you have shown here. For instance, "You are obviously biased" is right out, simply because it is universally applicable. I could tell you "You are obviously biased" with the same, or better, justification. --Hob Gadling (talk) 07:54, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I am allergic to hypocrisy, so I have no desire to argue with you. — WitcherGeralt (talk) 14:30, 6 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The article does not refer to it as a Nazi, despite it being a white just like every other Nazi. The only mention of the term Nazi, is its defense of its leader Richard Spencer another Nazi, an outspoken self admitted Nazi at that. If anything the lack of sources that refer to it as an evil subhuman Nazi, is slanted in favor of the Fascist far-right white supremacists.

I don't understand this: She OFFICIALLY changed her gender / sex status to male. Shouldn't (s)he then be classified as a man? Jezabeliberté (talk) 17:33, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Check the archives on this talk page for previous discussions. She hasn't identified as male except for the one publicity stunt. Even in the video of the publicity stunt itself, she expressed shock that she had been allowed to make the change - because she thinks it is obvious that she does not really identify as male. Larry Hockett (Talk) 19:24, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So Wikipedia doesn't follow what the law says and gender is based on what people feel they are?Isaw (talk) 16:32, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

See MOS:GENDERID. —C.Fred (talk) 16:36, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure what anyone here is talking about, but Southern is female in terms of both legal and personal gender identity, per the reliable sources on the matter. Newimpartial (talk) 18:04, 19 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

relevant to mention that mass shooters were inspired by her rhetoric and those around her https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/03/15/new-zealand-terrorist-manifesto-influenced-far-right-online-ecosystem-hatewatch-finds https://thinkprogress.org/alleged-new-zealand-shooter-donated-far-right-group-steve-king-tucker-carlson-8fe73243ea88/ 2001:1970:5E26:F400:14A3:4C86:2012:567B (talk) 15:09, 11 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done. It's not clear what changes you want to make. –Deacon Vorbis (carbon • videos) 01:11, 12 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Lauren Southern here to correct this article myself.

I think I'd know best what my politics are, not websites or news sources which dislikes me immensely.

"She has been described as alt-right and a white nationalist.[5][6]"

I am neither a white nationalist nor alt-right.

Critics of Joe Biden, including main stream sources have called him a sexual predator, yet you would never find this in his introductory paragraph on Wikipedia - because these are allegations from critics.

If Wikipedia and the editors here want to even show a modicum of even handedness they would edit this page to remove "white nationalist" and "alt right" from the opening paragraph and if included anywhere show that I have denied both allegations and that these are from critics.

I have linked to this talk page on my twitter to ensure you know this is in fact my account. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lauren Cherie Southern (talk • contribs) 04:40, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Former Democratic Senator Al Franken's lede mentions his sexual misconduct allegations. Hope this helps :) 130.180.88.101 (talk) 17:38, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

One can certainly point out that proponents for the "Great Replacement conspiracy" are usually alt-right and/or white nationalists. As the old duck test goes. "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck." or in other words. "If they act like a white nationalist, talks like a white nationalist, hangs out with white nationalists. Then they are likely a white nationalist." 2601:600:997F:4370:35B5:204A:2319:32B7 (talk) 08:08, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Lauren Southern here again. My last account Lauren Cherie Southern was blocked for... impersonating myself? I've confirmed this is me on my twitter again @lauren_southern. As wikipedia sent me a message suggesting I make another account.

I'd like to address one of the opening statements of the page which says.

"Southern is known for her promotion of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. A YouTube video of the same name she released in July 2017[8] has more than 680,000 views[9] and is credited with helping to popularize the white supremacist conspiracy theory.[10]"

It is ludicrous to suggest this is what I'm "known for". It's one video I made years ago which doesn't even exist on my Youtube page anymore, which was based off seeing outlets like "The Guardian" make articles called "The Last Days of a White World" in which they suggested white people are ever more becoming a minority. I reject white supremacy in all its forms, the conversation I had in that youtube video was one about demographic change which is a question of mathematics and numbers - it was not one of ideology. As I mentioned before many mainstream outlets have discussed the subject as well being far more blatant, why are "The Guardian" not attributed to popularizing the conspiracy of White decline despite their articles suggesting it is occurring? https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world

To get back to the point - I am known for my documentary Farmlands on South Africa which got 2.5 million views. I am known for my documentary Borderless which got over a million views as well. Significantly more attention than this "Great Replacement" video. Why are these two documentaries not included in the introduction despite receiving significantly more attention?

The reason they are not included and the Great Replacement is is because the editors deliberately want my page to portray me badly. To put this in the opening paragraph and not in perhaps "controversies" is absurd.

It would be akin to opening Kamala Harris page by saying "she is known for imprisoning black men for minor drug charges."

Did she help imprison black men for minor drug charges? Yes. Is this what she's primarily known for? No.

Did I make a video called the Great Replacement? Yes. Is it what I'm primarily known for and did it have anything to do with me wanting to support "white supremacy" - absolutely not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lozza77 (talk • contribs) 05:27, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

idk man that video is how *I* know you, so i think it checks out 2600:1700:4EE0:9C0:893D:A34:4056:14E6 (talk) 18:53, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Lauren Southern here again. My last account Lauren Cherie Southern was blocked for... impersonating myself? I've confirmed this is me on my twitter again @lauren_southern. As wikipedia sent me a message suggesting I make another account.

I'd like to address one of the opening statements of the page which says.

"Southern is known for her promotion of the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. A YouTube video of the same name she released in July 2017[8] has more than 680,000 views[9] and is credited with helping to popularize the white supremacist conspiracy theory.[10]"

It is ludicrous to suggest this is what I'm "known for". It's one video I made years ago which doesn't even exist on my Youtube page anymore, which was based off seeing outlets like "The Guardian" make articles called "The Last Days of a White World" in which they suggested white people are ever more becoming a minority. I reject white supremacy in all its forms, the conversation I had in that youtube video was one about demographic change which is a question of mathematics and numbers - it was not one of ideology. As I mentioned before many mainstream outlets have discussed the subject as well being far more blatant, why are "The Guardian" not attributed to popularizing the conspiracy of White decline despite their articles suggesting it is occurring? https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/sep/03/race.world

To get back to the point - I am known for my documentary Farmlands on South Africa which got 2.5 million views. I am known for my documentary Borderless which got over a million views as well. Significantly more attention than this "Great Replacement" video. Why are these two documentaries not included in the introduction despite receiving significantly more attention?

The reason they are not included and the Great Replacement is is because the editors deliberately want my page to portray me badly. To put this in the opening paragraph and not in perhaps "controversies" is absurd.

It would be akin to opening Kamala Harris page by saying "she is known for imprisoning black men for minor drug charges."

Did she help imprison black men for minor drug charges? Yes. Is this what she's primarily known for? No.

Did I make a video called the Great Replacement? Yes. Is it what I'm primarily known for and did it have anything to do with me wanting to support "white supremacy" - absolutely not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lozza77 (talk • contribs) 05:27, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You're right, the introduction should really be just the first paragraph. I'll move the rest of the content lower down the page. AWildAppeared (talk) 05:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Lauren Southern again here to correct this article myself. My last account was removed for self impersonation, so I'm posting this again.

I think I'd know best what my politics are, not websites or news sources which dislikes me immensely.

"She has been described as alt-right and a white nationalist.[5][6]"

I am neither a white nationalist nor alt-right.

Critics of Joe Biden, including main stream sources have called him a sexual predator, yet you would never find this in his introductory paragraph on Wikipedia - because these are allegations from critics.

If Wikipedia and the editors here want to even show a modicum of even handedness they would edit this page to remove "white nationalist" and "alt right" from the opening paragraph and if included anywhere else in the article such as "criticisms" or something show that I have vehemently denied both allegations.

I have linked to this talk page on my twitter to ensure you know this is in fact my account. @lauren_southern — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lozza77 (talk • contribs) 05:56, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Lauren,

I've been following you long enough to remember when you made the Great Replacement Video. I also remember how it inspired a mass shooting. On top of this, I remember when you and Faith Goldy insinuated that the Quebec Mosque Attack was really perpetrated by a Muslim. I remember when you went around Paris, and filmed the streets complaining that there were too many brown people.

Stop gaslighting the public into believing you're just an average conservative; if you were, you wouldn't be nearly as infamous and you know it. You got your fame through shock value, not for being a normal person with conservative values. You got famous for hanging out with White Supremacists and trying to physically stop boats with migrants reaching Europe (even though, it is not a crime to claim asylum).

As for your documentaries, I cannot speak to them. But I can say that those millions of views you boast came from an audience that loved your white nationalist talking points.

Do I believe people can change? Absolutely. Do I believe you're an evil nazi? No. But don't act surprised that, after making your bed, you're asked to sleep in it. Don't act surprised that when you hang out with dogs, you get fleas.

I wish you the best, and I genuinely hope you find enough inner peace that you don't have to go on Wikipedia to fight random internet sleuths. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Marystuarts (talk • contribs) 16:34, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi SineBot,

My video did not inspire a mass shooting. There is absolutely no proof that the horrific shooter ever watched my video. I happened to quote the same French philosopher in the video, and find the attack horrific and all terrorism disgusting. Having discussed the same theory as someone does not make one responsible for an attack, environmentalists were not responsible, pewdiepie was not responsible. None of these people are, and it's extremely disingenuous of people who seem to understand the concept of not all Muslims to suggest that sharing the same conversation or ideas as an individual makes you responsible for all their actions. Not all muslims are responsible for 9/11 despite the fact that they discuss the same faith and speak the same words as many horrific radicals. If you can understand that concept you can understand this, I have never called for violence.

Re: Quebec shooting. I was sharing information that I found on message boards, and posted that it was simply a theory. I deleted the tweet literally within minutes because I decided, rightly so, that I should wait for all the information. If you want to make a judgement about my entire personality because of a mistweet which I deleted within minutes when I was 20, I find that rather absurd.

My Paris video was entirely based on showing just how much immigration had occurred in such a short time in certain suburbs. I made it clear the issue was lack of assimilation due to immigration at rates that were too great. We know there is a problem with lack of assimilation in Paris and mass migration, it's something the president Macron who is not on the right has complained about himself saying the country has far too much immigration and is not capable of hosting everyone. I know this first hand having spoken to migrants under bridges in Paris who regretted coming to the nation because there was nothing there for them, no support, no jobs etc. as their systems were overburdened. The area I filmed was not far from these bridges actually.

I can assure you "millions who watch love your white nationalist views" is a very silly statement, as many on the far fringes of the right detested Borderless because it humanized migrants. Assuming every single person who watched and enjoyed my documentary is a white nationalist - despite not having watched them yourself is more indicative of your bias far more than my own.

No I'm not a nazi, I'm glad you can at least admit as much. And I'm perfectly happy with where I'm at. I'd just appreciate it if wikipedia had a modicum of even handedness in editing pages.

LMAO, so after years of being BFFs with white supremacists, working with white supremacists groups and being the mascot of white supremacy on the internet, Lauren Southern suddenly claims that she is not that. Hilarious. But thats what you get. She made the cake, she should eat it. Phoenix (talk) 18:29, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The blocking template says "If you are the person represented by this username, please note that the practice of blocking such usernames is to protect you from being impersonated, not to discourage you from editing Wikipedia. You may choose to edit under a new username (see information below), but keep in mind that you are welcome to continue to edit under this username.

If you choose to keep your current username, please send an email to info-enwikimedia.org including your real name and your Wikipedia username to receive instructions from our volunteer response team about account verification. Please do not send documentation without being requested to do so."

That seems simple enough. It's probably her but in these times it might not be. Doug Weller talk 16:48, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Which is fine, she should only have one account and that one clearly identifies her. Doug Weller talk 16:54, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]