The Walking Dead takes a firm stand against pineapple as a pizza topping

Warning: This article contains spoilers about Sunday's "The Lucky Ones" episode of The Walking Dead.

The Walking Dead has had many controversial moments over the years: Carol telling a little girl to look at the flowers. Dumpster-gate. That Negan line-up cliffhanger. The zombie drama has never shied away from contentious subject matter. However, the series decided to stake out a firm position on a hot button issue on Sunday's "The Lucky One" episode, and that issue was… pineapple pizza.

When it comes to pizza toppings, there are many universally approved options to choose from: pepperoni, sausage, mushrooms, onions… hell, even extra cheese! But one topping has divided Americans like no other: pineapple. The Walking Dead waded into the heated debate in a scene involving post-apocalyptic bros Ezekiel (Khary Payton) and Jerry (Cooper Andrews).

As Ezekiel was about to go under for surgery to help treat that nasty cancer tumor that has been plaguing him seemingly forever, Carol (Melissa McBride) informed him that "We'll be here when you wake up," to which Jerry added, "Pizza, ice cream, the works."

Ezekiel's final words before drifting off into a medicated slumber, like a dying man fighting to get out one last breath? "No… no pineapple. I'm serious, Jerry. Pineapple on pizza makes no sense."

Have such scandalous words ever been said on primetime television? We immediately reached out to Walking Dead showrunner Angela Kang for an official comment on the record as to where both she and the show stand on this divisive topic of pineapple as a pizza topping. Suffice it to say, the executive producer did not mince words. "Disgusting," responds Kang. "I didn't write that line, but I was like, I thoroughly agree. It's an abomination. Why mix these two things? I don't understand it. So wrong."

While you chew on that, we also asked Kang about non-pizza related topics that emerged out of the latest episode, including the revelation of the real Stephanie (who is not Stephanie at all), a surprise Commonwealth-Alexandria connection, Maggie (Lauren Cohan) turning down an offer to join forces, and Lance Hornsby's (Josh Hamilton) endgame. Dig in!

ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: Explain what happened here with Max and how she got swapped out for Fake Stephanie/Shira. How did it happen on the Commonwealth side of things?

ANGELA KANG: I think on the Commonwealth side of things, obviously in episode 12 we start off with Max telling a piece of her story. I think that legitimately Max was feeling adrift. She feels like her job doesn't quite express who she is, that feeling that a lot of us have at various points in our lives. She was looking for something more, wishing for adventure. She has this mind that is bent towards engineering and just geeky things like Eugene [Josh McDermitt]. And so she makes this radio and starts calling out. I think she legitimately fell in love with this voice over the radio. She was going to go out there. And her brother, being who he is, says, "You are absolutely not going to go out there." With Hornsby being involved in anything that relates to operations and security on his own side, I think the swap out for this other character, that was even a surprise to Mercer [Michael James Shaw].

Nobody knew that Hornsby just pulled this move. I think Max would've been ready to try to meet Eugene if he ever made it in the gates but there's no guarantee that was going to happen. And instead, she sees there's this person walking around pretending to be her, and that's very scary. And so for Max, she's been existing in this state of, "What is even happening? Am I actually in danger? Does somebody know that that was actually me? I should keep my head down because my brother's saying so. He seems to be happy with her."

And so for Mercer, he's used to Hornsby pulling shenanigans, so he's letting that go on its own track. And for Max, she's just baffled and scared and is waiting for the right time to emerge. And when she starts seeing these posters for this Stephanie character has gone missing, it's like, "Okay, well, something has shifted, and so maybe now is my time to step forward."

What happened, then, when Mercer found the radio equipment? What did he do? Did he bring that to Hornsby and say, "We have a breach"? Or did he stay silent about it?

No, we think that people were probably monitoring. And we did leave this sort of subtle because we wanted to play it more from Max's point of view, but in our mind and backstory, people in the communications department at one point picked up these signals and started listening, but they didn't know who it was. All they knew was there was [a] breach. And Hornsby was like, "Okay, well, we're going to find the right time to figure out how if this ever becomes something more, we're going to chase it down."

So, I think that really came from Hornsby's office, and Mercer has been now put in charge of going out there as the equivalent of army or police to go and put his men out there to apprehend them. But I think Hornsby had his hands all in that from the beginning.

So, Mercer and Max are really the only people at this point that know it was her. The others do not, right?

Yes.

What do you make of Ezekiel not wanting to cheat by skipping the line on his cancer treatment? Should he just kind of get over it, which I suppose he ultimately does?

For Ezekiel, we didn't want to make it easy for him. There is a lot of complication to how things work in the Commonwealth because it's this bizarro mirror of the world as it is and as it was. And so for him, he comes face-to-face with the difficulty of getting medical care, because they only have so many doctors and they've got 50,000 people that are living there and they've been through an apocalypse. So, there's going to be a lot of health issues to deal with. There's a lot of surgeries. There's a lot of old wounds that need care. There's the normal diseases you'd have. And for someone like Ezekiel, he has no pull. There's nobody to jump into the front of the line.

We all know even in our own system that there are ways that you can work the medical system. We've seen that play out even throughout the pandemic and when the vaccines were first available. The funny thing is, we've been planning versions of stories around his healthcare for a long, long time. And then it somehow started to resonate more with us.

But Ezekiel is a guy who, his morals are important to him and it's hard for him to think about, "I'm cheating," in some way. And I don't think he wants to. But I think Carol's point is, "But if everybody does and you could do something with your life, why martyr yourself when the system itself is what is broken? And there's only a certain type of people in this community that are being shut out of it. But just think about that." And I think it's a decision he makes, but isn't happy about it, but feels like there's something that he has to do as a result. So, that's where Ezekiel's headspace is coming out of this episode.

Whose idea was it to connect Pamela [Laila Robins] and Deanna [Tovah Feldshuh] and have them know each other from before?

It's possible I pitched it, but it definitely was a room discussion. In our constructing of the backstory of our show version of Pamela Milton, we were looking at these families that are political dynasties. And we always thought that in the pre-apocalypse, Pamela was the free-spirited one that went to university in London and was a philanthropist and didn't want to be in politics. But in the Commonwealth, they're all trapped in what they were born to do or what they had done. And so she, in her own way, is trapped into a job because that's her legacy.

And so with that background, we were like, "Okay, well, who would she have run into?" And we quickly went, "Well, we've already said that Connie was this top political journalist, so she definitely would've run into her. And we've already said that Deanna was in Congress, so she definitely would've run into her, too." And so I think it was just us running down the paths of reality with what we've said people do. And if you're in that world, you rub elbows with people that are in high places. Because if her father was a president, then Deanna definitely was in their sphere as a family.

Let's get into this stuff at the end. Maggie seems like she's maybe about to say yes to joining up with the Commonwealth and then Mercer calls out "Formation" and tells Daryl [Norman Reedus] to file in behind other soldiers. Next thing we know, Maggie tells Pamela she is passing on the offer because "Everything costs something." What happened there?

I think there were a few things that happened for Maggie. The two things she's weighing is, "Wow, my people are really struggling. I'm really struggling. We could use this help, and all of the rest of my friends have taken it. So, why am I being too stubborn?" So, that's running through her head the whole time. Like, "They don't seem terrible people. Our friends are doing okay." So, she is leaning towards it.

But she has this conversation with Pamela, and realizes that they have very, very different worldviews. So, there's that, but at the same time they actually do like and respect each other. That's the thing that throws Maggie. But having those Commonwealth troopers sweep in and start mowing down all those walkers so quickly, within seconds, there's something about that that doesn't sit well with her when she sees that happen.

On the one hand it's, "Wow. We could use this." But on the other hand, it's like, "But are they really on our side, and what happens if they turn those guns towards us?" So, she's thinking about that as somebody who's been a war leader. And I think she does see that she's watching Pamela and Hornsby standing up there by her gates looking imperial, like they've got plans. And she's looking at Daryl falling in with these troopers. He's still Daryl, he's not in his gear, but there is some sort of communication passing between him and Mercer, and there's just something about it that doesn't pass her vibe check, I guess.

And she is thinking about the cost to these things. But every decision comes with a cost too. So, for her, her decision to say, "I'd prefer to stay independent," that doesn't come free either. Because she loses some people. She loses a little bit of the trust of some of the people that she's looking out for. And it also means they're going to keep struggling. So, for Maggie, it's a decision that's not easy, but it's just the best thing that she could come up with in the moment based on just her gut instinct about what she's seeing go down.

What about from the other side of it? Because it seems like Pamela is pretty aware that Hornsby is doing this as a move to get more power for himself. But yet, then she does allow him to keep pursuing it. Why?

All things in the political sphere are complex. And so Pamela is a character who has a lot of really good intentions here, but she's no idiot. Hornsby's pulling his moves and it's like, if you're dealing with somebody who grew up in the mob, you can't pull mafia moves without them knowing. So, I think it just speaks to how complicated their relationship is. And I think in some ways Pamela doesn't mind if certain things go down as long as it doesn't interfere with her top priority, which is making sure that the Commonwealth stays safe.

So what's up with that final scene of him shooting the zombies in the face? What is that saying? Is it strictly about power over controlling these communities for him?

For Hornsby, he's an ambitious guy. And I think we see with Carol that, in the previous episode, that this is a guy who is capable of doing good things, but he does it in complicated ways. He's out there as a fixer, moving this dial, and turning that dial and pressing here and manipulating there. I think he's a guy who likes a certain element of risk or gambling. And for him, he's frustrated by the limitations on him.

The Commonwealth is a place that says what you were really defines who you are. And he feels like he's bumping up against some ceiling with his ambitions. And he has bigger dreams. I think all the things he says to Maggie, they're not a lie. He does imagine a future where everything's interconnected. I think various people might disagree on how you get there, though. So, that's the essence of Hornsby.

We've seen the six months in the future look ahead where they're at the gate with the soldiers. Is this a case then where he tried to do it one way to get them to join and now he's going to pursue a different path, maybe a more armed, forceful path towards getting the Hilltop in line?

I just say to watch the story play out because there's some other twists and turns to come as well.

This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.

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