Denis Villeneuve Calls ‘Dune: Part Two’ A “Dark Tragedy,” Talks Potential ‘Messiah’ Sequel & More [Interview]

Following ecstatic reviews (including ours) and a super impressive Rotten review score of 97, Denis Villeneuve’s “Dune: Part Two” seems poised to not only conquer the sagging 2024 box office but enliven it, perhaps giving it the shot in the arm it needs.

It’s a colossal film and an immense achievement, but a much darker film, and clearly much darker than I expected (full disclosure: I started reading, but put down Frank Herbert‘s “Dune” before the first film came out; more below).

A few weeks ago, I spoke to Villeneuve about “Dune: Part Two” and all the challenges of mounting a film that makes you question the moral integrity of the film’s heroes. Without too many spoilers, it’s a film about false gods and putting your faith in false prophets, and Villeneuve was unequivocal about that, describing the film as a dark “tragedy” and cautionary tale about who we put our faith in.

If anything, I show my cards in this interview: i.e., I didn’t finish reading Frank Herbert’s “Dune”—I know, I know— because I started when the first movie came out, but then I realized I wanted to preserve the surprises, so I thought I would put it down and revisit after both films were out.

“Dune: Part Two” likely needs little introduction; it’s the second part in the story of Paul Atreides’ journey. Following the death of his father and the fall of the House of Atreides and their rule on Arrakis, Paul aligns himself with Chani (Zendaya) and the Fremen as he seeks revenge on the conspirators who destroyed his family while endeavoring to prevent a terrible future that only he can predict.

The sprawling ensemble cast features Timothée Chalamet, Rebecca Ferguson, Josh Brolin, Stellan Skarsgård, Dave Bautista, Zendaya, Charlotte Rampling, and Javier Bardem reprising their roles from the first film, with Austin Butler, Florence Pugh, Christopher Walken, and Léa Seydoux joining the ensemble cast.

“Dune Part Two” opens March 1 via Warner Bros. Here’s my conversation with Villeneuve.

I almost don’t know where to start; this thing is so massive and complex. Tell me about bringing this thing to life.
When my crew and I started to prep, we were quite… all coming in with a smile; we were all feeling really confident, and then very quickly, we realized it was a totally different beast than part one. The movie was much more ambitious and technically complex, and it’s by far the most difficult thing in my life. I will say that one of the challenges if we start with the screenplay… one challenge was to be sure that it would be a direct continuity with part one, but that it [would] also be autonomous, that if someone came to the theater not having seen part one, they could still understand, in general, the story, and would still be able to enjoy the movie without seeing part one.

So, that was one of the first challenges we encountered, but it was a very dense and challenging journey, but rewarding because I learned so much about my craft.

To me, this movie is really emotionally ambitious. It’s so much darker, and a lot of the characters we have grown to love in ‘Part One,’ are all put in dark places, and often, we find ourselves questioning who they are.
Yeah, yeah. One thing I must mention is that when Frank Herbert wrote Dune, he was destabilized by how people perceived the book, where he felt like Paul was seen as the hero, and that’s not what his main intention was. He wanted to make the book a warning about charismatic figures, against messianic figures, against charismatic leaders, and he wanted—in order to correct that— to make people understand his intentions, he wrote Dune Messiah to correct that, to make sure that statement was well understood.

And me knowing that story and, of course, me having read “Dune Messiah,” it gave me a lot of information on how to direct my adaptation, to be closer to the initial intentions of Frank Herbert, and that’s why the movie is pretty dark. It’s a tragedy.

I’m relieved to hear you say that because I felt exactly that way about it. They quote-unquote “win,” but it comes at such a great cost.
Absolutely. And the way to approach this, I really made this adaptation, the focus in this adaptation was in the relationship between Paul [Atreides] and Chani. That is why Chani [Zendaya’s character] became so permanent and such an important character in Paul Atreides’ journey, more important than in the book because Chani gave me the perspective that I need to convey the idea of Frank Herbert.

For sure, I mean, I felt the movie was bold in that you didn’t shy away from showing Paul Atreides potentially going down the dark path with some of his decisions. He’s really burdened with too much.
He is, frankly, gliding towards making decisions that will ultimately make him into a bad guy. This is the tragedy of Paul Atredis, and this is why, knowing the prescience of what Frank Herbert was trying to do with ‘Dune Messiah,’ I’m positive that this was the way to make this adaptation relevant.

I’m super happy that you didn’t change anything in that regard. And I guess my surprise about it all comes from, we’re not used to seeing blockbusters this dark. We talk about ‘Empire Strikes Back’ and films like that, but those are big obstacles for the characters, and where they end in failure. This is a much more self-generated tragedy, which I find much darker, so I guess my question is: did the studio ever pressure you guys to soften this up a little bit?
Absolutely not, absolutely not. I absolutely explained the way I wanted to do this, and everyone was on board. I had absolute trust and confidence from Mary Parent at Legendary, and Legendary was absolutely happy with Part One. They gave me total freedom from ‘Part Two,’ and they absolutely understood and agreed with my choices. For me, creatively, I didn’t have to convince anyone; they all understood why I was doing it this way and how important it was to go in this direction.

That’s great to hear. Because we’re so used to blockbusters being…
Triumphs.

Yes, exactly, triumphs… and it’s so dark and the way it ends. I mean, now you have to make that, and you have to make it next! You can’t leave us hanging like this [Laughs].
It’s true that I feel that the movie is complete, that the adaption of the book is now completed, but it’s true that myself as a filmmaker, I’m like, ‘It would make sense to go back one last time, and to finish the arc of Paul Atreides and Chani.’ It would make absolutely sense, yeah.

Ha, yes. The first one, I feel like could stand alone if we didn’t get a sequel. This one, to be honest, I need more. But well, tell me about the decision of Paul’s sister and this little special thing inside, which we won’t talk about (though the actress already spilled the beans), but tell me about, at least, the creative left turn from the book you took.
I appreciate that; thank you so much because you know? Nobody knows about that. Very few people knew about the presence of this character, and even the film crew they didn’t know; it was like super contained because I was trying to, almost as a game, try to protect and see how long we could keep the secret, and so far we did so I would love if people experience this at the premiere, that would be awesome, so I thank you for being mindful of that.

[As for the change from the book], it was the idea to compress time and to put more pressure on Paul, to make it feel like he was less comfortable in this world and that he didn’t have the time to install himself [as a leader], to breath, and to feel the danger and the pressure from the outside was a bit faster than in the book. And it’s an idea that early on when I was brainstorming with [screenwriter] Jon Spaihts, and we both thought—you know when you make an adaptation, and you take liberties—this movie says more about me than about Frank Herbert because I did it with my own sensibilities. If someone else would have done it, it would have been completely different. That’s what’s so interesting about adaptations, of course, it has to go through me, and distort, and I made a lot of decisions in order to try and bring this to the screen and that’s one of them. That’s one of the changes that will be talked about in the ‘Dune’ fandom.

On a movie level, it makes a lot of sense, though [redacted explanation because it’s a minor spoiler]. It definitely raises the stakes for Jessica and Paul. Well, to circle back, do you know what you’re doing next? You did say at one point that you might take a break from Arrakis. But as I mentioned earlier, [laughs] I need more, and soon! [laughs]
Listen, you’re sweet , but I’m doing press for ‘Part Two,’ and once the movie is out, I intend to go back into the snow and dream a little bit to see if I’m going back to Arrakis right away or if I’m taking a detour just for mental sanity, to take a little distance and get rejuvenated.

I have other stories I want to tell, and we’ll see what first script that is ready to go in front of cameras. The thing I don’t want to do is make compromises, those books are precious, too important to me. If I bring ‘Dune: Messiah’ to the screen, it has to be with the best screenplay possible, and I want to make sure we don’t compromise. The more time passes by, the more my convictions and will to make it are stronger, but I want to make sure that we find the best way to tell that story; we are close, and we are working on it, but it’s not finished.

Well, speaking of uncompromising films, there’s a rumor that “Sicario 3” is next with the entire cast, your directing, and it’s shooting soon…
Listen, [“Sicario” screenwriter] Taylor Sheridan is one of my favorite screenwriters. If Taylor is writing a screenplay, I would be absolutely excited to see that on screen, [but] I have not heard about [a new script or project]. Nobody has talked to me about that.

OK, so I figured, but had to check.
No. I’m just hearing about it now. I don’t know if thing this will happen, but if Taylor Sheridan is writing it, it’s going to be fantastic.

Fair enough. Let’s talk about the cast, which is amazing and sprawling. Anyone in particular that was a highlight to work with? Maybe Christopher Walken?
Yes, introducing to the screen newcomer Christopher Walken [laughs]. I cannot talk about… if I could talk specifically about each of them and why I love them all, but they’re like my kids, I cannot. I have no favorites, and I’m proud of what they all brought to the screen, and I can’t wait for the world to discover what they have done with these characters. They have to deal with characters that are bigger than life, these iconic characters that have been beloved for more than 60 years, so they had a huge responsibility to bring these characters to life. They took that very seriously, and I’m very proud of what they did.

I wanted to circle back to the beginning a little bit, the moral complexity to this. And it doesn’t sound like it, but were you ever worried about how audiences might perceive Jessica or Paul given some of the things they have to do or the choices they make?
No, it just makes the journey more interesting and more compelling; you’re drawn into strong emotions; it’s a very emotional movie. That’s one of the things I love about it. I wanted to—it’s a movie that raises a lot of powerful questions about the power of religion and the danger of it and that it’s set in a safe space where I will offend nobody because it’s somewhere on another planet with a culture that doesn’t exist, so it’s like, it’s something that is the appeal of doing a movie like ‘Dune,’ to be able to tackle those important subjects with total freedom and I think it just makes the movie more compelling, more moving and it’s almost the opposite [or worry]. It’s a plus.

So, I see it as a very stark cautionary tale. Is that fair to say?
Absolutely, just as the book was supposed to be.

“Dune: Part Two” opens in theaters March 1.