I want Origen to be correct about apocatastasis. I want to see my father and grandmother again. I want to be part of and with my family for eternity much like the LDS teaches. But it is strange for me to imagine God will grant these things because I want them. Maybe it's because I imagine God would then have to grant things to everyone and those things would often conflict (either with each other or with God's will).
@BB - "But it is strange for me to imagine God will grant these things because I want them. " I think it is a necessary start for thinking about these vital matters. Parents, by and large, try to provide the things that their children *really* want, or at least give them serious consideration - that's quite normal, yes? But when it comes to being with specific persons forever, then obviously they will also have a say in it. And also there is reciprocity - knowing that someone already in Heaven loves you and wants you there may be a factor in whether or not you yourself want to dwell in Heaven. This, I believe, is a way in which Christians can and do help each other by mutual love, within life and across death. A way that the 'dead' help the living.
31 October 2020 at 11:58
Bruce B. said...
I have at times imagined that Origen's version of apocatastasis might be correct with the qualification that there are some (number unknown) who simply refuse salvation - they want to live with sin rather than love for eternity and God doesn't force them.
David Bentley Hart wrote a book on apocatastasis (and a unique translation of the NT) that I would like to read. He has some public positions that I disagree with but I'm nevetheless interested. Obviously his ideas aren't liked by orthodox Catholics, Eastern and Western.
1 November 2020 at 16:14
As far back as my 2011 mini-book Thought Prison I have been saying that the primary decision (which few make) is to 'choose your religion'; any other decision is futile, since all other real and possible decisions end on The Left and therefore in support of purposive evil. But the choice of religion remains; and cuts across different religons and denominations. I think much can be gained by considering What You Want - given that God is both creator and loving parent, hence will try to give what we most want, within constraints of what is good for us and God's other children. So, it is reasonable to assume that we will get what we really want, therefore it behoves us to consider what that is: to give the matter some serious consideration. And I specifically mean: want across an eternal timescale; consider what we want for our-selves after biological death: That, I believe, is a key question, the answer to which frames this mortal life and affects our understanding of everything in it. For example, do we most want eternal peace, or to do stuff - to work?Do we want bliss, or family living (like marriage, children, close friends - sociality)?Do we want stillness, or creation?Do we want deity, or Jesus?
"Choose your religion..."
3 Comments -
I want Origen to be correct about apocatastasis. I want to see my father and grandmother again. I want to be part of and with my family for eternity much like the LDS teaches. But it is strange for me to imagine God will grant these things because I want them. Maybe it's because I imagine God would then have to grant things to everyone and those things would often conflict (either with each other or with God's will).
31 October 2020 at 11:44
@BB - "But it is strange for me to imagine God will grant these things because I want them. " I think it is a necessary start for thinking about these vital matters. Parents, by and large, try to provide the things that their children *really* want, or at least give them serious consideration - that's quite normal, yes? But when it comes to being with specific persons forever, then obviously they will also have a say in it. And also there is reciprocity - knowing that someone already in Heaven loves you and wants you there may be a factor in whether or not you yourself want to dwell in Heaven. This, I believe, is a way in which Christians can and do help each other by mutual love, within life and across death. A way that the 'dead' help the living.
31 October 2020 at 11:58
I have at times imagined that Origen's version of apocatastasis might be correct with the qualification that there are some (number unknown) who simply refuse salvation - they want to live with sin rather than love for eternity and God doesn't force them.
David Bentley Hart wrote a book on apocatastasis (and a unique translation of the NT) that I would like to read. He has some public positions that I disagree with but I'm nevetheless interested. Obviously his ideas aren't liked by orthodox Catholics, Eastern and Western.
1 November 2020 at 16:14