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Post a Comment On: Bruce Charlton's Notions

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Blogger Lucinda said...

I was thinking today about Heaven being a place of freedom and love, not traditions or anything automatic or transactional.

For me, the rubber hits the road in my family relationships. If family traditions don't exist, will my husband and I still be drawn to each other? And my children? I want to live so as not to take these blessings for granted, to re-create these vital connections across time.

I believe part of how the System preys on us is just like you say, by threatening isolation, but the belonging that comes through System is unsatisfactory and in vain. In the realm of relationship, we are still deeply cut off if we are not romantic, both free and bound by love. The sad part about watching people struggle inside the System is that they are still cut off, faking it, insecure, they sense that the System may turn on them at any moment, and over the stupidest thing. This is not real belonging, surely. The belonging that is offered by the System turns out to be a lie. Yet still many clamor, thinking that if only they achieve a higher level of System privilege, then they will find real belonging, but it is impossible in that way.

22 December 2021 at 14:50

Anonymous Skarphedin said...

Comoletely agree (to the extent I understand you) and well said as usual.

This is allegiance to a thought-world and not the real world.

Thoughts have being but less being than things in the real world. So, this activity you speak of seems like a choice to claim allegiance to and to try and live on a lower level of the Hierarchy of Being (than that to which we are meant to by God).

I suppose the proper thing is to pledge allegiance to the highest level of Being (God) and try to live in the real world.

22 December 2021 at 15:44

Blogger Francis Berger said...

Well put! Since 2020 I have felt that people would have to distance themselves from the System as much as possible - not physically, which is extremely difficult if not impossible - but spiritually. I have referred to this personally as "system-distancing".

I couldn't always articulate what that actually meant, but the need to engage in it daily after 2020 has remained firmly etched in my mind as a spiritual imperative. I had not taken this line of thinking to its logical conclusion as you have here, but it does seem that the path of the mystic may be the only viable option going forward.

Having said that, I fear most Christians will dismiss this path out of hand.

22 December 2021 at 21:10

Blogger David Earle said...

I've grown so much and deepened my faith and relationship with God to an immeasurable degree in the past 2 years with the knowledge and perspective I gain from reading this blog. You keep hitting it out of the park. My thinking has never been clearer. Thanks again!

23 December 2021 at 03:02

Anonymous Anonymous said...

Authority and individuality are contractual. The self has authority over itself alone to be orderly, having humility and being forgiving. The degree to which an individual consistently proves good traits determines the value of one's authority to host other individuals. Being oneself, being true to one's nature, the similar adages, are opposed to systems, yet only in error and untruths does a system rule without any authority. Individuality in error has sought a resemblance of the self by its placement within systems, not as it must by dispensing with itself.

Thank you Dr. Charlton.

23 December 2021 at 04:37

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Lucinda - Great comment. We are being pushed into one of two mutually exclusive paths, are we not? And especially women - who so fundamentally desire to belong.

But one kind of belonging pushes-out another - sooner or later; as women discover who want to be friends with everybody, offend nobody.

The belonging such as The World offers (unsatisfactory for the reasons you state - indeed, a delusion because the 'contract' is unilateral) is getting more and more demanding; so that to belong in The World is forcing-out all other forms of belonging. And when The World is evil?...

I was thinking of how some of the women Christian mystics seemed to live among the Company of Heaven - 'belonging' among saints, angels, Jesus Christ. This is perhaps the main way that women are mystics, and become spiritually independent of The World.

23 December 2021 at 06:53

Blogger Lucinda said...

Women are much more involved in avoiding the bottom than they are in getting to the top. I think many men can't understand this because they view the bottom as a useful strategic option for getting to the top. Women who are apparently ambitious for the top spot are merely getting the greatest possible distance from the bottom.

Needless to say, men and women interact with hierarchy very differently based on this difference in motivation.

The thing is, the experience of being an outcast is very spiritually fruitful. And it appears to me to be the only way to confront the reality of alienation, and then hopefully to get past it to the Company of Heaven.

23 December 2021 at 14:55

Blogger Lucinda said...

After further consideration, I would rather say that those inclined to spiritual independence (who embrace heaven belonging) often then become outcast. However, there are fewer women outcasts as a rule, but not necessarily fewer women heaven-belongers. That is to say, heaven-belonging women are usually still useful to the group whereas heaven-belonging men often pose a threat. And the presence of such women would not be easy to know because of women's behind-the-scenes-as-wives-and-mothers influence.

So I think the more common path for a woman heaven-belonger would be to experience the outcast mystic path sympathetically/compassionately.
This is the path open to me anyway.

25 December 2021 at 12:26