The way I see it is that sometimes ordinary people have substantial influence, while other times they are just swept along with events and can't do much to change things.
If there was an Atlantis and if there were individuals trying to reform it up until the end, I can't fault them for that. Then there's also all the people caught on in wars over the eras. Or the people during the Black Death who didn't have the medical knowledge to treat people effectively and then ended up dying themselves. If they were really trying to help in good faith, I admire them for that.
Different people are in the different situations and while we're on Earth, we can use the opportunity to learn, but different people can learn in different ways. There's always the possibility for distraction or self-delusion, but at the same time, genuinely good actions are worthwhile on Earth and afterward.
@NLR - As someone who spent about 25 years resisting the System agenda in innumerable ways, large/ public and small/ private - organized and sporadic (in a much more favourable environment than now); the lesson I learned is that when you do so, you do it from your own motivations and for your own satisfaction.
Because "other people" will almost instantly *melt away" (including people you had thought were friends, and who agree with you verbally, in private, "in theory") as soon as there is the slightest *potential* (not even actual) disadvantage to resistance; or to being associated with you.
There is no point in making a thing about "fighting". If you need to do it, just get on with it - don't expect approval, and don't expect that it will make any perceptible difference to anything.
In other words, real-life "fighting" for what one believes Good is a spiritual activity (because the material/physical is always spiritual (though not vice versa).
31 March 2024 at 17:02
NLR said...
"In other words, real-life "fighting" for what one believes Good is a spiritual activity (because the material/physical is always spiritual (though not vice versa)"
That's a good way to put it
31 March 2024 at 18:36
Jay said...
Even if you can't make a significant global difference, you can make a difference for a few. That is worth (figuratively) fighting for and can have eternal effects.
I think the collapse of Western civilization, in its present form, is already a near certainty...Most people won't acknowledge the situation until they are deprived of some of the fundamentals of life..At that point, in the US, States will secede and the whole political structure will crumble..In the UK, which is in a worse situation IMO, I have no idea what will happen...
1 April 2024 at 01:06
Things are much worse than most people think! That is clear from the "If only" conversations and writings that seem to have plagued the world for hundreds of years at least. So many people though history have pointed out that "If only" people would just be nice, kind, reasonable, sensible, or whatever - "then" how much better this world would be... Yes indeed; but the Whole Point is that People are not thus, and show no signs of significant improvement in their natures. A variant of this are the appeals for people to Fight this, that or the other. "If only" a few people would awaken to their own power, band together, organize, vote, Fight - "then" we could win. "Such exhortations are always, whether explicitly or implicitly, about "us" and what "we" could do if only we would Fight. Yes indeed; but the Whole Point is that (here and now, in "real" life) people don't and won't fight.Or, at least, they will fight only when they are compelled by the government, get paid, or attain high status for fighting. Although some people will fight without reward; from their pleasure in destruction, bullying, and infliction of pain. And therefore (because their motivations are bad) people will only in practice fight on the side of evil - because, in terms of spiritual virtue: motivations are what matter. What's more, even if people could be well-motivated to fight on the side of God and Good; who exactly would they fight? The answer is that those who fought for Good would need to fight those on the side of evil. But things are much worse that most people think; and those on the side of evil are not a handful of Dark Lords and elite lieutenants, the elimination of whom would win the spiritual war; but instead those on the side of evil is... Almost Everybody. If you really (rather than merely rhetorically) were to fight, fight, Fight; then your would nearly-always start by fighting your family and friends, moving on to neighbours and colleagues, very soon including almost-everybody... those involved in almost-every social system: those responsible for food, water, energy, building and repair, trade and transport, retail etc. - as well as police and the military. The evil that rules this world, controls all these, and the other (politics, media, law, education, health,. arts, science...), social systems - so all-of-them is exactly who and what you would need to Fight. And even supposing you were able to inflict significant damage on Them; by destroying The System; you would certainly cause the sooner (rather than later) collapse of Western Civilization*. Things are much worse than most people think; and even if people and this world were utterly different from what they actually are - the dewy-eyed optimism of those who exhort us to Fight reveals their naïve ignorance of how bad things actually are, how pervasive and (in its various, or specific manifestations) overwhelmingly popular is the agenda of evil. Realistically; there is no basis for optimism: that is, there is no basis for believing that the world can or will become significantly better than it is now. But for a Christian this is not a counsel of despair, because Heaven is not of this world, and Jesus Christ's promises are of resurrection for those who follow Him - real Christianity is not a programme of socio-political reform. In other words: the cure for despair is not optimism but hope; not group belief in a high probability of amelioration or improvement but the personal certainty of salvation. *Of course, the underlying motivations of the fight-fight-fight brigade are often (apparently) selfish or in service to evil. Some are using this rhetoric to "make a buck", to build a business, build a cult around themselves, support the "party"; others are paid shills or state-employed agents provocateurs. Others are just LARPing as tough guys. But some are, no doubt, sincere but misguided - and they are the focus of the post.
"Fight, Fight, Fight is only a variant of "If only everybody would just be Nice""
5 Comments -
The way I see it is that sometimes ordinary people have substantial influence, while other times they are just swept along with events and can't do much to change things.
If there was an Atlantis and if there were individuals trying to reform it up until the end, I can't fault them for that. Then there's also all the people caught on in wars over the eras. Or the people during the Black Death who didn't have the medical knowledge to treat people effectively and then ended up dying themselves. If they were really trying to help in good faith, I admire them for that.
Different people are in the different situations and while we're on Earth, we can use the opportunity to learn, but different people can learn in different ways. There's always the possibility for distraction or self-delusion, but at the same time, genuinely good actions are worthwhile on Earth and afterward.
31 March 2024 at 16:48
@NLR - As someone who spent about 25 years resisting the System agenda in innumerable ways, large/ public and small/ private - organized and sporadic (in a much more favourable environment than now); the lesson I learned is that when you do so, you do it from your own motivations and for your own satisfaction.
Because "other people" will almost instantly *melt away" (including people you had thought were friends, and who agree with you verbally, in private, "in theory") as soon as there is the slightest *potential* (not even actual) disadvantage to resistance; or to being associated with you.
There is no point in making a thing about "fighting". If you need to do it, just get on with it - don't expect approval, and don't expect that it will make any perceptible difference to anything.
In other words, real-life "fighting" for what one believes Good is a spiritual activity (because the material/physical is always spiritual (though not vice versa).
31 March 2024 at 17:02
"In other words, real-life "fighting" for what one believes Good is a spiritual activity (because the material/physical is always spiritual (though not vice versa)"
That's a good way to put it
31 March 2024 at 18:36
Even if you can't make a significant global difference, you can make a difference for a few. That is worth (figuratively) fighting for and can have eternal effects.
1 April 2024 at 01:01
I think the collapse of Western civilization, in its present form, is already a near certainty...Most people won't acknowledge the situation until they are deprived of some of the fundamentals of life..At that point, in the US, States will secede and the whole political structure will crumble..In the UK, which is in a worse situation IMO, I have no idea what will happen...
1 April 2024 at 01:06