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Post a Comment On: Bruce Charlton's Notions

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Blogger Alexeyprofi said...

I recently read Nikolai Berdyaev. He criticized democracy on the basis that it puts the will of man above all else, while the will of man must be subordinated to the will of God. I believe that we are part of God acting in this world, and if he wanted our submission, he simply would not have given freedom from the very beginning.

23 December 2022 at 11:51

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Ap - I partly agree; but I do not believe that we are, or ever have been, *part of* God; because (it seems to me) that would make us all reducible to God, hence redundant, hence there would be no point to creation.

The usual response to this is that we are parts of God who have been endowed with freedom; but I can't see how that would make a difference; because if God gave freedom to parts of Himself, then 'freedom' would just be another 'part' of God.

Part of God + Part of God is still = God-only, with no basis for meaningful freedom.

23 December 2022 at 12:09

Blogger Alexeyprofi said...

I think it's like with the author and the characters. They are created in his mind, through his thinking, and are inseparable from him, but at the same time we perceive them as distinct beings. The difference, while the human author is sustained by the universe, God must sustain himself(because there is nothing outside of him to cause his existence). That's my point of view.

23 December 2022 at 13:09

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Ap - I am familiar with the analogy, but it doesn't seem to help!

23 December 2022 at 14:18

Anonymous Evan Pangburn said...

This causes me to wonder why God sent Christ at the particular time that he did. It would seem to me that it would make more sense to have sent him around the junction between medieval man and modern man (as in, maybe between 1600-1800 AD).

Of course, I'm sure that there are reasons why that isn't what happened, but as I said, it makes me wonder.

23 December 2022 at 17:29

Blogger Francis Berger said...

@ Alexeyprofi - Sorry to "muscle in" on the conversation, but just for the sake of clarity, Berdyaev does not believe God created freedom or gives man freedom. Quite the contrary. He doesn't believe freedom was created at all!

Berdyaev believes freedom is the baseless foundation of all being and is deeper than all being. That is, freedom precedes being, which means -- in Berdyaev's view -- that God has some control over being but not freedom. Uncreated freedom as the only basis for meaningful freedom was the foundation and starting point of all of Berdyaev's philosophy.

Also, the term subordination is misleading. Berdyaev believes man's duty is to answer God's call and become a co-creator, which is a very different thing from being God's obedient servant.

23 December 2022 at 17:48

Blogger Shannon said...

Timely post for me. What you've written resonates, if I've understood you well enough. Very recently, I've felt that I must "kick off the training wheels" and make decisions for myself regarding what is or isn't acceptable, using my God-given discernment. I feel infantilized in the Church system. I want to exercise my wisdom and strength. And I do believe God wants that for us. A Father is pleased when his child can do for himself or herself, no?

23 December 2022 at 18:45

Blogger pyrrhus said...

It seems to me that our experiences in this life would be meaningless if they always reflected God's will, but are very meaningful if they are products of our own soul's decision making, however often flawed...
Rather, s we progress through lifetimes, we learn wisdom, and become closer to God in the process...

23 December 2022 at 19:47

Blogger a_probst said...

@Evan Pangburn:

He changed history. Would there have been medieval and modern men as we know them without the birth of Christ and the rise of the Church?

23 December 2022 at 22:24

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Shannon - This was one of the posts that - as I was writing it - I had a feeling it was *for* somebody in particular. When I feel this, I almost always get a comment or e-mail such as yours.

@Evan - I have always supposed that Jesus was incarnated as soon as He was ready, and it could be arranged. But there is a possibility that there needed to be a specific coordination with the incarnation of John the Baptist, and perhaps others too. Probably the question is too complicated and multifaceted to be susceptible to any but the most general kind of answer!

23 December 2022 at 22:49

Blogger Shannon said...

Thank you, Bruce.

23 December 2022 at 23:30