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Blogger Tim Powers said...

I'm curious -- which of Lewis' most basic assumptions did you decide were invalid?

26 March 2024 at 17:05

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Tim Powers - I don't know if you The Tim Powers, or A Tim Powers (pseudonym perhaps)?

I'll assume you are the Real Thing. So - thanks for visiting and commenting! It is strange to turn from watching a YouTube interview with you just an hour ago, to reading a comment from you...

Assuming this is your first visit to this corner; I should say that I am a great and frequent reader/ re-reader admirer of CSL in all his manifestations; and indeed have a blog devoted to the Inklings: https://notionclubpapers.blogspot.com/ . My favourite of his specifically Christian works are probably Screwtape and Great Divorce - and Narnia.

Well, the first thing was not a fundamental assumption but actually CSL's advice (eg in Screwtape) not to be bothered about specific churches - so I got confirmed into my baptismal church (C of E) and went to the nearest branch and started confirmation preparation.

But it turned out that the C of E was (this was 2009) riven with disputes, especially about the ordination of women priests and bishops, and whether homosexuality was to be encouraged. My local church was strongly in favour of women and openly homosexual priests, and practiced what it preached. The second-nearest Co of E church (where my kids attended youth groups) was on the other side on both issues - equally vehemently.

After - rather unwillingly - being *compelled* to take one or other side, I stopped attending the nearest church, and went to the second nearest; but it was on the evangelical side of Anglicanism, and I much preferred the Anglo-Catholic liturgy, and the Book of Common Prayer.

But this situation precipitated a period of several years of trying to find a church that reflected what I felt was right, when all the churches (of all Christian denominations - including Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox) I found to be riven by disagreements and conflicts and controversies - and all, it seemed to me, becoming more corrupt and worldly almost by the month.

In the end, I was compelled to make personal discernments wherever I went - and this recognition meant that I became convinced that personal discernment must be primary, and churches secondary - indeed optional (if a suitable one could not be found, which was my case).

Then in 2020, I realized that None of the churches were serious about what they said. All enthusiastically agreed to shut down until further notice. I was particularly shocked that the RCC closed Lourdes - with the excuse that this promoted "health"!

Theologically, I have ended up in a minority of one. It is not possible to encapsulate the many fundamental (metaphysical) differences with CSL succinctly - if you are interested, you could maybe look at my mini-book on the Fourth Gospel as a starting point. https://lazaruswrites.blogspot.com/

26 March 2024 at 17:58

Blogger Tim Powers said...

Yes, I'm "The Tim Powers," David in Valis (though I never have, in fact, believed anything like the idea that people get sick because they willed it!)
You're right in noting that all Christian denominations are full of disagreements & factions, most of which, by necessity, must be wrong to a greater or lesser extent. I believe Roman Catholicism is the Live Wire because its dogmas are, and have always been, unchangeable. Various factions, and even (ahem) Popes have tried to add things like the ordination of women, or condoning abortion or same-sex marriage or Communion for divorced-&-remarried people, but they always have to say, "I disagree with the Church on this or that point ..." Various other Christian denominations used to condemn divorce, gay sex, etc., and later said, "Oh well, I guess God doesn't object to those things after all, but we've got it right this time ... pending future changes."
This is a bit in haste, but I wanted to reply. I'll do better tomorrow, especially assuming you have disagreements!

26 March 2024 at 19:07

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Tim - I am naturally argumentative! - but also I am Not out to challenge anybody else's Christianity; and what you say seems absolutely reasonable to me.

For myself; I am not satisfied by the traditional Christian (eg CS Lewis) theological explanations of several key things including free will/ agency, the origins of evil, the nature of creation, and the nature of Jesus's divinity, and Jesus's accomplishment - I find these traditions incoherent and/or excessively abstract.

I have developed a set of metaphysical assumptions that satisfy my need for coherence and clear, simple, comprehensible explanations on these points; but others who are not dissatisfied by traditional explanations in the way that I am are absolutely welcome to their own explanations.

I regard Christianity very simply: Christians are those who desire (above all) resurrected eternal life in Heaven, and seek to attain this by the one and only path of following Jesus Christ.

Behind this are a multitude of competing and mutually-incompatible explanations of detail about "how this works" - but I do not think any of this divergence of explanation should be a cause of fundamental disunity among practicing Christians.

BTW - I don't know whether you also admire JRR Tolkien, but I have just read a very interesting and detailed spiritual biography of Tolkien called Tolkien's Faith, by Holly Ordway (2023). Among other things, it has a great deal about the Roman Catholic Church of Tolkien's era, his upbringing by a priest guardian in the Birmingham Oratory (founded by Newman) and much else. I learned a lot from it.

26 March 2024 at 19:24

Blogger Tim Powers said...

If we ever meet, it'd be fun to hash it all out in a hotel bar somewhere! Especially the free will/agency business. But we can let it wait until then.
And thanks for telling me about that Tolkien biography! I'll certainly get it.

27 March 2024 at 04:21

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Tim - " fun to hash it all out in a hotel bar somewhere!"

It is certainly a pleasant notion! but I don't travel far, due to health problems; and reside in Newcastle upon Tyne - which is rather off the beaten track for most US visitors - just a place where the train stops briefly, about 2/3 from London to Edinburgh.

27 March 2024 at 08:06

Blogger Jonathan said...

Bruce, this is one of those times when your comments have turned into a better post than the post.

27 March 2024 at 09:25

Anonymous G said...

There is a character in The Great Divorce who sounds almost exactly like Kevin in the passage you quote.

He's a cynical world weary man without a formal education but who's been educated in the school of hard knocks. His sin is that he refuses to hope. He always struck me as a bit like Orwell. I am unaccountably drawing a blank on the name that Lewis gives him at the moment


I assume everyone here is a Tim Powers fan but if not you must read the Anubis Gates. Last Call and Declare are also phenomenal

27 March 2024 at 12:03

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Jonathan - "comments have turned into a better post than the post"

Agreed. Except that maybe that was the unconscious reason behind the post all along? Who knows! Sometimes synchronicities are too strong to be altogether accidental.

27 March 2024 at 12:04

Anonymous G said...

I would of course give a great deal to be present in that hotel room

27 March 2024 at 12:06

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@G - Would that be the Hard-Bitten Ghost, in section 7?

https://barnardsvilleumc.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/ebook-lewis-c-s-the-great-divorce.pdf

My core interest in Tim Powers has actually been in him as a *person*. I have watched and read several interviews (some, not all, in PKD documentaries), and read some memoirs (some, not all, about PKD); and TP has always struck me as a very interesting, and fundamentally Good individual - especially unusual for a successful writer.

(*Most* writers I do Not regard as on the side of Good!).

27 March 2024 at 12:19