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Post a Comment On: Bruce Charlton's Notions

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Anonymous Countermeasures said...

So the official new "Lord of the Rings" trailer is now up on Youtube. It has a swarm of comments, all the same (although in different languages):

"The Shadow that bred them can only mock, it cannot make: not real things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs, it only ruined them and twisted them." - J.R.R. Tolkien

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCLoZI-FOYA

I think we can call this progress.

16 February 2022 at 16:23

Anonymous easty said...

I don't think Tolkien has "bucked the trend" as you put it. Sure elves, dwarves, and halflings (sic) are popular, but its more becauae of DnD than Tolkien. My opinion is Tolkien fandom is largely just British due to Tolkien being British and its a point of national pride, but in the States, had DnD never been created, Tolkien would be forgotten. Had Arneson not prevailed upon Gigax to include "Tolkien races" and had Gigax instead stuck with "you must play a himan barbarian like Conan" then in the States everyone who be like "Who is Tolkien?" There never would have been any movies either.

17 February 2022 at 00:45

Blogger Serhei said...

The passage about 'myths performed by someone gifted in a solemn and focused situation' reminded me precisely of the Elves of Rivendell and their practice of singing lays in a solemn setting -- precisely as an attempt to recover the First and Second Ages that they no longer live in, but can only sing about.

1 March 2022 at 18:19

Blogger Serhei said...

Well, in terms of Gygax and D&D, I was always struck by the initial parallels between the set-up of 'The Hobbit' and the set-up of a typical D&D adventuring party -- with a miscellaneous cast of characters of rather disparate races and personalities, brought together through contrived circumstances, and bound by an apparently superficial common goal (e.g. to burglarize a dragon's lair), in a faraway land whence they must travel while surviving a set of unconnected random encounters. Because one of the characters is persistently underpowered, the DM eventually tosses him a break in the form of a side-quest leading to a powerful artefact that he can use make a better contribution to the party.

Of course, Tolkien eventually discards these contrivances in favour of a significant story, while the resemblance to D&D goes in the other direction: because the DM must typically weave together a story with a cast of whatever characters the players have brought to the table, whose personalities, backstories and motivations are undeveloped and unclear, it's inevitable for the story to have contrivances resembling 'The Hobbit'.

1 March 2022 at 18:27

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@easty - That isn't what history suggests. Tolkien predates D&D, Gygax was only modestly influenced by Tolkien (see Appendix N by Jeffro Johnson); the dungeon-crawling, treasure-seeking structure of early D&D was very different from Tolkien's plots - and as D&D evolved its always moderate Tolkienian qualities have dwindled and indeed become swamped. The (renamed) 'Tolkien' races of D&D are now both different from the originals, and just a few among a vast number of alternative characters.

The mass of Tolkien fans are operating at a very superficial and faddish level (whether academic or social) - much the same as any other fandom.

But what distinguishes Tolkien from other fandoms is the spiritual intensity of a core of adherents; and that its most spiritual adherents have the strength to resist global totalitarian leftism.

In this sense Tolkien stands apart.

8 June 2022 at 10:34