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Post a Comment On: Bruce Charlton's Notions

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Anonymous Bruce B. said...

I seem to remember Jim Kalb (or Lawrence Auster) saying that equality and liberty had become "god principles" which meant something like "fundamental principles that cannot be subordinate to other principles." Thus the "unprincipled exceptions" that liberals and leftists make to actually live in this world.

27 August 2021 at 16:06

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@BB - Well - the principle never seem to be denied, although they conflict, and are applied mono-maniacally, one at a time, in rotation; and it is a long time since actual equality was genuinely sought rather than inversion.

Much like the use of 'health' as a global imperative: the actual meaning of health mutates and reverses almost weekly; but always in support of the leftist-demonic imperative.

But what William made clear to me was that absolute, nihilistic and total destructiveness of applying the principle of equality - which would not end until the whole of reality was reduced to formless, unknowable, chaos.

27 August 2021 at 18:26

Blogger a_probst said...

John Lukacs wrote in 1970--

"...the best times in the history of modern civilization were those decades when there existed a tolerable compound of authority and liberty. In these matters, however, the compounds are marked not by the proportions of their quantities but by their qualities." [Emphasis added.]

He went on to say--

"In our times, then, when the principle of popular democracy is supreme, when elections are popularity contests at the same time when the common citizen before government is powerless; when he is the potential victim of atomic accidents, of atmospheric booms, of exploding gases or chemicals, at the same time when he is at liberty among pictures, advertisements, books, theater and moving-picture scenes representing the mutual degradations of naked men, women and children, to talk of a balance of authority and liberty is nearly nonsense: it is tyranny and anarchy that are beginning to hold each other in sway."

From The Passing of the Modern Age, Chapter 4, "The Monstrosity of Government"

27 August 2021 at 19:23

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@ap - Well, the age of popular democracy has de facto gone; since it is increasingly clear that elections (if important) are simply predetermined with the balance of 'votes' manufactured as required by multiple mechanisms; and the integrated global totalitarian system will announce the result and declare it 'fair'. Democracy by diktat.

But this fraud is only possible because the masses believe absolutely that 'democracy' (i.e. a black box process that at some point including voting) is necessarily virtuous and anything that depends on individual responsibility (rather than committees and votes) is evil.

But in truth the opposite is the case: democracy, committees, voting are necessarily evil:

https://charltonteaching.blogspot.com/search?q=voting

So, here is yet another value inversion.

It is a measure of the unprecedented evil of the world that there are So Many value inversions that are invisible/ denied/ vehemently defended.

27 August 2021 at 20:06

Blogger a_probst said...

Pursuant to that point, another Lukacs title:

Outgrowing Democracy: A History of the United States in the Twentieth Century (1984)

27 August 2021 at 20:33

Anonymous ben said...

The peak of our civilisedness was associated with greater sexual dimorphism, many niches within which many different types of people lived, great differences in power between individuals. We were supermen and we were unequal.

Are we not reverting to something like an equatorial-type hunter-gatherer savagery? Equal and primitive. Or maybe something more like the Neolithic farmers?

Regarding the present West, it seems difficult to distinguish between rising primitivity/individually-oriented behaviour, and rising novel dysfunction/mutational load-related behaviour. Maybe the two overlap. But yes, it seems clear that we're devolving into some kind of undifferentiated mush.

27 August 2021 at 21:48

Blogger Hatcher said...

I wonder if the good that is being perverted in the hearts of many is something like the desire for everyone to get in the ark, for everyone, without exception, to be given a place in heaven . “Equality” reduces to the lowest common denominator, yes, but in so doing it provides everyone with “worse than” examples. Ie, “I may have cheated on my spouse, but these ppl (who we all agree deserve a place) have done much worse, so I’m definitely in”. It’s a very End Times motivation. Why are we all suddenly so concerned that prostitutes or murderers be regarded as “good”? . Maybe we sense a judgement approaching & look for these human shields to avoid repentance. Just a thought

27 August 2021 at 22:06

Anonymous Bruce B. said...

Bruce you're saying that purely negative destruction is the goal and equality is the means? I can believe that but isn't liberty also a means to their destructive end?

28 August 2021 at 01:27

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@BB - Equality is A (not The) means to destruction of divine creation (and transcendental Good, and real values); and destruction (etc.) is the tendency and terminus of those whose ideology is equality. Equality is both an expression of value inversion, and a means by which value inversion is attained.

28 August 2021 at 06:18

Anonymous Bruce B. said...

His observation that equality and liberty are in conflict is an old and obvious one. He seems to speak favorably of liberty. In my mind liberty has just as much potential for accomplishing inversion/destruction. Sometimes the enemy of your enemy is also your enemy.

28 August 2021 at 12:39

Blogger Lucinda said...

Yes, now it's easy to see that evolution selects for that which is unequal in a good way. Part of why so many are dumb about evolution is that they incoherently mingle subconscious ideas about equality/interchangeability/randomness into it.

From my perspective, the worst part about it all is the entitlement and resentment that inevitably damns those who notice someone above them. Why not strive to be better? Well that seems to be the hoped for conclusion, hoped by the optimistic.

It reminds me of what CS Lewis said about it being more important that Heaven exists than that any of us get there. The universalist impulse begins initially as a hope that all would choose good, once they really understood, but always devolves into demands that bad be called good.

So, yes, this insight really uncovers the basis.

28 August 2021 at 14:48

Blogger William Wildblood said...

Bruce B, I do speak favourably of freedom. Without freedom there is no self and therefore no love. Freedom is why God created mankind, something that was to all intents and purposes independent of him so that it could reunite with him because it wanted to, in love. If you mean by liberty doing what you, you as the unredeemed fallen self, want, I agree with you but that's a different thing. Is not your freedom what makes you you and not just an automaton or zombie?

28 August 2021 at 18:31

Anonymous Bruce B. said...

William thank you for the direct reply. I am sorry for not reading your original piece just Bruce's summary.

I am familiar with the critique of liberty as radical individual autonomy where people are defined by choices and not categories they are born into. Also the critique of radical individual expression and the narcissism that seems to come with it.

I had a hunch you meant something else by "liberty." I guess freedom is close to what I identify as will/agency and I agree that's fundamental.

28 August 2021 at 19:06

Blogger William Wildblood said...

Thanks for your reply too. I think we do agree about this. I always go back to the teaching that "in his service is perfect freedom" Real freedom comes from choosing to love and follow God and his Word. In everything else we are enslaved to our own little self.

29 August 2021 at 10:18

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@William

"in his service is perfect freedom" is something that requires explanation, if it is not to come-across as sheer paradox or manipulation. It sounds like a fake choice, a Hobson's choice - rather Orwellian life "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others".

But the meaning is, I believe, perfectly straightforward; in that to choose Jesus, resurrection and Heaven is to choose the only situation where our personal freedom or agency is deployed in a loving and creative context.

However, first we must make that primary choice to live by love of God and divine creation, and to repent sin, forever. In heaven it is not possible to think and do anything which does not derive from this commitment to love; but to reach this situation requires a free act of choice that rejects all the possibilities of sin. That choice is what enables perfect freedom - because we will not want to do anything we should not do.

From the demonic perspective, this makes Heaven unfree - because from that perspective the freedom to sin (to sin in general, according to desire; or often in a particular and specific way) is primary. From the perspective of Satan, Heaven is a place that 'prevents' some things he wants to do, therefore heaven is unfree, constrained.

(This seems to be he 'normal' modern view about Heaven: A 'boring' oppressive place, for buttoned-up squares and lame characters; where the really 'fun' things of life are disallowed. Hell, by contrast, is seen merely as a situation where I can keep doing what gives me most immediate pleasure, or doing even more of it - and the evil person looks no further than that. As can be seen from the fictional 'bargains' which are made with demons - such as Faust, when the human assumes that if he personally gets what he most wants Now, he will be happy forever, and nothing else (about context, or other people) matters. Of course, he never is happy - but that does not stop the making of Faustian bargains, as an everyday fact of mortal life.)

One could call Heaven versus Hell a choice of freedoms. To be free within love and divine creation to join with the work of creating; or to be free to sin.

One can't have both, because all sin is anti-creation, and cannot exist in Heaven if it is to be Heaven.

29 August 2021 at 11:41

Blogger William Wildblood said...

Bruce, agreed! In this sense to serve (i.e. love) God is to be released from self-enclosure into the greater life of heaven.

29 August 2021 at 13:02

Blogger A said...

Bruce,

That is an incredible comment and rather deserving of its own more permanent post! That is an important answer everyone needs to know. It is such a fundamental question that seems so difficult to get a simple, clear, direct answer to.

Also, you were very prescient about voting... you have argued your position for a while, but before the 2020 election made it so starkly clear (though Brexit, etc. helped) to show that voting is another part of this Satanic apparatus designed to keep us attached to sin. Our authorities & media propagandize this self-identification with sin, and then voting is a fake operation in which we are supposed to accept the increasing march towards evil as right and good. They are one and the same... but this ties into the answer you gave above. Everything was designed to prevent us from detaching from and repenting our sins.

...and everytime a small show of good comes out, the most meager effort to repent or reject, to turn from the march towards evil, the entire world comes down on it 24/7 as the gravest threat (e.g. Mr Trump, Texas Abortion, Brexit, rejecting the peck, whatever)

5 September 2021 at 01:13