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Post a Comment On: Bruce Charlton's Notions

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Blogger Tobias said...

Some questions that spring into my head after reading this.

You say that thought should (or just does) come before action. You have also said that God thought creation into being. So for God, thought came before action. Presumably, we should do the same - train our thinking, so that we know properly - the good stuff, sorted out and kept, and the bad stuff thrown away.

Do you also believe that if deep thinking is in alignment with God's wishes for creation, then those aligned thoughts start to help in the ongoing process of creation?

Do the thoughts begin to alter matter?

If many people thought in a God-aligned way, would God's 'evolution' continue at a faster pace?

Would God be expressed at a 'next level'? (He's structured the mineral level into stars, planets, etc - the vegetable level, the animal level, the human level with its independent, rational mind, capable of moral discernment, and love). It may be argued that God thought the mineral level into a fit state, or host, for vegetation to grow, and the mineral level into the famous 'primordial soup' in which animal life could begin, and animal life into more and more complex, and favourable hosts, for God to live in. Until he thought into being hosts in which the obedient, thinking entities from outside creation could be slowly born into. But, that could only occur if the host consciously chose right thinking in alignment with love and beauty - God's way of creation.

Do we help with the 'next level'?

Presumably, this is why right thought is key.

Tobias

16 September 2018 at 17:29

Blogger Andrew said...

If Direct Christianity is the ultimate destiny God wants for us and His Creation then He will provide the help, the Grace, to bring it about. He won't let us flounder about aimlessly indefinitely. He won't let modernity go on and on and on acting as a meat-grinder for souls without providing a remnant with the ability to engage in what we're calling Direct Christianity who can help bring it to the world. He will intervene sovereignly if necessary. If we want His help, He will provide it.

-Andrew E.

16 September 2018 at 18:35

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Tobias - If thought is first, then what we call matter comes from it, like a concentration or condensation of it. This is, of course, what physics has been saying for about a century - 'matter' isn't 'solid'.

@Andrew - I agree, but in the past tense. The help is here, everywhere, already - but we must personally acknowledge its reality, turn to it, choose it.

In these end times, the means of salvation is simple and easy and direct - but people don't regard it as real or important, they don't want it - they want damnation; because they believe that evil is good.

We can do it, each for ourselves, but it seems that few want to.

I seem to see (even) *real* Christians in the main churches setting themselves up to reject salvation, by their refusal to deal with God directly; and their insistence on putting first some other secondary and indirect thing - church authority (which is now corrupt), tradition (which is now corrupt), scripture (which is now corrupted in many translations and many exegeses, and many 'systems' of understanding - such as equality of authority in all books of the Bible, or the equal and absolute truth of each verse - that have unexamined assumptions, or a modern materialist literalism of understanding), philosophy (whose unexamined assumptions are corrupt)...

Essentially, when interpretation and communication and everything worldly and indirect are corrupted; we must rely on direct knowledge; which is provided for us, but must be chosen.

Of course, we our-selves are also corrupt - but we can at least do something about that, whereas we cannot reform The World (as a prelude to obeying it), when The World does not want to be reformed.

16 September 2018 at 18:53

Blogger Chiu ChunLing said...

In That Hideous Strength, C.S. Lewis has Rev. Straik preach that the true meaning of Christianity is to be accomplished by medical science reversing death. "The real resurrection is even now taking place. The real everlasting. Here in this world. You will see it."

I today heard a key member of my local church (who has been assigned a number of responsibilities for overseeing the teaching and practice of religion) preach this exact doctrine, though with less eloquence. That is to say, the real meaning of Christianity was to assist in Transhumanism and all allied 'progressive' causes that would sweep away traditional objections and indifference to the project of medical science being "freed" to reshape human destiny.

I was minded of that when you mentioned "We get churches who say the same old things, but means by them the opposite - Christian forms with materialist-atheist content."

And yet, I am convinced that the actual acts of supporting Transhumanism and the set of politically affiliated progressive causes are in fact identifiably different from actions celebrating Christ.

That is to say, I believe that our actions have more influence on our thoughts than not. Yes, our actions can be to some extent the result of thought, but the ingrained and repeated actions which become habit form and constrain thought.

If we do not see how the acts of those who are not truly Christian fail to conform to the example and doctrine of Christ, then I submit that no amount of thinking can make our own otherwise indistinguishable acts meaningfully Christian.

17 September 2018 at 00:24

Blogger Lucinda said...

For me, a really damning assumption was that seeking to appear to do good, and seeking to actually do good were essentially compatible desires.

It was really holding me back. I have been able to build a more and more direct relationship with God. The thing is that the more I am able to do anything actually good, the more I am seen by those who value goodness (or even just pretend to value goodness) as being good, which returns the temptation afresh to pretend to goodness.

But insofar as I've stuck with challenging myself about wanting to appear good versus actually being good, there has been real progress.

There is a spontaneity which I've had to get accustomed to. It's hard to let go of the security of calculating how my actions will be perceived by 'important' people in my immediate vicinity. But it's been easier to interact with individuals in a genuine way, obviously. And that's been very satisfying.

17 September 2018 at 15:52