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Post a Comment On: Bruce Charlton's Notions

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Blogger Wm Jas Tychonievich said...

Interesting that the Bible has nothing to say about life before agriculture. The first farmers are Adam and Cain, and the first hunter mentioned, Nimrod, is also the king of several cities, so obviously not a hunter-gatherer.

27 April 2018 at 06:29

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Wm - I assume Genesis 4:2 described the origin/ invention of agriculture:

And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

And that before this there was implicitly some kind of Edenic version of the hunter gatherer life... but then Genesis, at this point, does not seem to be trying to tell us anything like History.

I suppose my point is that the origins of Christianity - so far as we have *records* - have been within literate agricultural societies; but that this is an historical artefact - and the reality of Christianity is (and must be) wholly compatible with non-literate, ultra-low tech hunter gatherers.

27 April 2018 at 06:42

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Wm - I should clarify that being a 'keeper of sheep' is agriculture, just as much as being 'a tiller of the ground' - although the current consusus is tha herding of goats then sheep came one or two thousand years before growing cereals... Herding, as well as tilling, causes/ associated with the qualitative changes that mark the advent of agriculture. Indeed there were some hunter gatherers with agriculture-type societies among the Amerindians of the Pacific North West - the ones that had totem poles, potlatch feasts and slaves - they 'harvested' and stored shellfish and other water resources. It seems to be the control of food supplies (or some other essential of life, maybe a technology) that triggers/ enables the social changes - the emergence of a warrior/ priest ruling class etc.

27 April 2018 at 06:50

Blogger Wm Jas Tychonievich said...

Or how about the story of Jacob and Esau as depicting the transition from hunter-gatherer life (Esau was a hunter) to agriculture? Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage -- representing giving up the hunter-gatherer life in exchange for the steady food supply of agriculture. Esau's deception by Jacob is portrayed as a sort of second Fall. Esau is called Edom, which is etymologically the same name as Adam; and the crafty, hairless, heel-grabbing Jacob recalls the serpent.

27 April 2018 at 09:49

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Wm - Yes, that's convincing.

(Of course, these are just specific aspects of what is being given - what I got from Barfield's work on language, what crystallised this for me, is the very different way in which ancient people thought, spoke and wrote compared with us - meaning many things simultaneously. The nearest we moderns can get to it is in poetry and dream; both of which are notoriously 'untranslateable' into precise descriptive prose - which means only one thing at a time.)

27 April 2018 at 10:32

Blogger Chiu ChunLing said...

No, the pastoral life is not agriculture. This is not just technically incorrect. There is a vital difference between the relationship of man to other mammals and man to vegetation. It is a difference with real and significant moral implications.

The scriptures, particularly those recording Christ's mortal ministry, recognize this distinction implicitly.

Hunting and gathering is a natural mode of life for humans. It has appealing aspects, much like "free love". But it means not only giving up the project of civilization, but the foundational aspiration of alleviating the essential cruelty of nature. The worship of Ashtoreth and Baal involves abject acceptance of even unnatural cruelty in exchange for carnal pleasures. It is thus an extension of the preference for hunting and gathering over pastoral life. The "Noble Savage" is a myth, the real savage is at some moments apparently free of malice simply by failing to be conscious of his own outside of those moments when some necessary act of cruelty requires it.

Pastoral life confronts and challenges that cruelty, without necessarily going so far as to deny that it is fundamentally necessary.

Once you know about civilization, you can never make the choice to become a savage without abandoning moral scruples entirely. But you can return to the pastoral life.

27 April 2018 at 20:43