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Post a Comment On: Bruce Charlton's Notions

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Blogger Lucinda said...

This lines up very much with how a good parent should want the relationship with their children to be.

I was telling a mom-friend of mine that life is unavoidably traumatic. Our children just can't get from the point of complete helpless dependence to a point of free independence without the traumatic experiences that make immersive trust in the parent untenable. (Though it's worth being deliberate in discerning what experiences are to the purpose and which are just demoralizing.)So just as the mentee must move on to phase two, the mentor must learn to want this for the mentee, even if it's traumatic for both parties.

What I see in the churches is an extension of this mommy-delusion, that conversion need not be necessary if the child is raised right. God is helping individuals grow up, one way or the other. Some may need time as earnest atheists, some may need time as sinfully compliant church goers. The necessary thing is to recognize the actual results of one's beliefs as an individual and how they play out in reality. Alienation is the only way to ensure free association which is a bedrock for true love.

I would say that "honesty" has it's limits, as a parent. I tell my young child not to go in the road because of a bunch of things they can't comprehend? It's not going to work. When they are young, they operate on the level of receiving parental approval. Alienation comes before comprehension. But sometimes people speak about honesty as if it can prevent alienation, but to prevent alienation is to prevent eventual comprehension. Which is why I can see the good you pointed out in your post "In what ways might Men better serve God's purposes in these times, than ever before in history?" What better way for God to help us move on to phase two? Similar to the way a parent shouldn't be making life comfortable for teens who should be moving out. (This comes more naturally to my husband than to me, I admit.)

31 May 2022 at 14:46

Anonymous Rui Artur said...

I agree about the primacy of discernment over obedience, but is it not the case that this is not possible for the majority - in practice if not in theory? I don't see the change you see in mentality (or consciousness). The majority was always composed of followers. And it remains so (in some respects, perhaps even more so than before). Is there any way out of this? 'many are called, but few are chosen', especially in the end times?

31 May 2022 at 14:57

Blogger Bruce Charlton said...

@Lucinda - Good comment.

I think that one of the worst aspects of these times, however, is the fear that stepping off the path will lead to a growing child be so swept away by the force of top-down, celebrated and pervasive evil in the world now, that (what with sin feeding on sin) they may go so far astray as never to get back on track.

But, in the end, we must have faith that the creator can always make space and opportunity for repentance, when any heart has a spark of desire for it.

@RA - The change in consciousness through history is not the kind of thing that can be proved by evidence - it is a metaphysical assumption. Modernity assumes no change, and all evidence is interpreted on that basis.

So, to evaluate the idea of developing consciousness you would need to, want to, make the hypothesis of change; and then see how that different assumption affects your understanding and relationship with the world.

31 May 2022 at 15:51