Towards the end of Running With The Devil: The Wild World Of John McAfee, which tells the bizarre story of the late eccentric security software millionaire's downfall, his ghostwriter hits on an interesting viewpoint: “John was the virus.” The new Netflix documentary, helmed by the Bafta-winning director Charlie Russell, certainly proves that to be the case. This was a man who would seamlessly switch between being an affable, high-living raconteur and an abusive, drunk criminal, hellbent on destroying those around him.
For those unfamiliar with the story, McAfee – who invented McAfee computer security software in the ‘80s – went on the run from the Belizean authorities in 2012 when his next door neighbour was shot and killed. He invited two journalists on the run with him and managed to escape to Guatemala, before faking a heart attack to return to America. Then he was wanted in the US for tax evasion, so he went AWOL again in 2020, which is when Russell began conversations with him about a potential documentary. With a warrant out for his arrest, he was finally caught in Barcelona in October 2020, and on the day he found out he was set to be extradited back to the US in June 2021, he died by suicide in his prison cell.
The documentary uses footage from previous journalists who attempted to capture McAfee on film, and interviews the characters who managed to get close to him before his death. It is similar in tone to 2020’s Tiger King, in that you’re watching a morally dubious but engaging character living a car crash of a life. During our conversation, director Russell says this dichotomy is at the heart of his documentary: “You are questioning how you feel about watching this man, who no doubt has done some terrible things. The people who surround him are aware of how awful he can be and how joyful he can be, so it’s about how you balance those two things out.”
How did you make contact with a man on the run?
I downloaded some software and I sent him a message. He messaged back quite quickly and was quite responsive. He was quite harsh initially, like, ‘Who are you, what are your credentials?’ and I explained who I was and I decided to be straight with him. I used the fact that he was born in Britain and the fact that he clearly was proud of an outrageous sense of humour. Suddenly he said, ‘Great, can you come and film; and I said, ‘Okay, where are you?’ and he said: ‘I can’t tell you, as I’m on the run’.
Ah, yes, of course.
So we concocted this plan. He said we would fly to an airport somewhere in Europe, some guys would meet us, put bags over our heads and take our phones away, they would drive us around for five hours so we couldn’t disclose his location. Once we’d arrived, we would be allowed to interview him, no subject would be off-limits, and we’d get five interviews over five days. This was all John's idea, then we could make our documentary. I was like, ‘Okay, sounds terrifying’ but he was in his mid-70s by this point, so I was thinking he can’t be that dangerous.
Did that put you off at all? Did you think he was taking the piss?
It seemed kind of funny, in a weird way. A bit dangerous, but we couldn’t fly at that point in the pandemic, so we thought: let's wait until we can. Then we pushed it a bit and said, ‘Well, what if we could drive there John? Then he sort of started giving away his location without much effort. He said ‘Well, if you come to the Pyrenees…' and we said ‘Okay’. Then he said, ‘Well, if you come to Barcelona…' and started giving it up a bit.
Other than a Zoom call, you never got to meet him in person before his death. How do you feel about that?
What became apparent over the course of making it was it was a blessing that we didn’t ever interview John, because we started meeting people who tried to and it was always impossible. He would make stuff up and scare them; everyone had a story about being scared by John and it seemed like it was a test. It felt like there was enough material to tell it through the eyes of the people who had spent huge amounts of time with him, who were close to him, and all those people were very conflicted about John as they kind of loved and hated him. For many of them, he had literally ruined their lives. But they still felt an affection toward him, and I think that’s very telling.
Like Alex Cody Foster, his ghostwriter, says he was drawn to John because he was “potentially a murderer, but it’s a great story”. What do you make of that?
I think it’s quite hard not to like John. There’s something about his devil-may-care attitude that is very intoxicating. In the filmed footage you’re thinking, is he for real? Is he performing? He’s obviously enjoying it. He's just living his life in a way most people don’t and I think that’s why the people who are drawn to him are intoxicated by him and would do almost anything for him.
When he’s on the run, he’s pictured revealing his name to people, chasing recognition and literally inviting the media to follow him. Was he the world’s worst fugitive?
As you’re going through the footage you start to think: how much is he actually on the run? Is there actually anyone after him, or does he just like the idea of it? Then you discover stuff that makes you realise that he definitely was on the run. At times it’s incredibly comic and, like you say, he appears to be the world’s worst fugitive, inviting people to come and fly out to see him. What’s hard to square in all of this is he did end up in prison and he ended up dead, so how much of this is fantasy and how much of it is real?
How much of his behaviour can you attribute to the copious amount of drugs he took? Was his paranoia justified?
It was definitely drugs, and it was definitely legitimate paranoia. Then there’s a story that Janice [his ex-wife] tells that I completely believe. She gets contacted by high up members of a Mexican drug cartel who ask her to poison her new husband and she’s thinking about it, partly out of fear for her own life, and she then realises she loves him and she decides not to do it. So there is paranoia, but then there is something else there too. Ultimately, I don’t know.
He claimed he had secret intel on the Belizean government and the drug cartels. Did you ever find anything to back up those claims?
No. There’s plenty of speculation on the internet, even someone like Alex is 50/50 on this stuff as to whether he believes it, and I think we’re all slightly flummoxed about it.
His widow, Janice, believes he was killed. What do you think?
I talked to Robert [King, the videoographer who spent a lot of time filming him] about this quite a lot. Robert veers between real sadness and a feeling that this guy ended up dead in a prison and to this day his body hasn’t been released by the authorities. Robert can’t understand that. It’s very weird. I think he feels that the guy at least deserves a burial, despite all the bad things he’s done. At the same time, Robert would say John liked telling stories, and if at 75 you find out you’re going to be extradited to the US to face the rest of your life in prison, are you going to go for that or are you going to give the ultimate ending to your stories?
What do you make of his ex-girlfriend Sam claiming she was called by him after his death, claiming he faked it?
I don’t know what I think and I don’t think she does. She says it, then she looks at the camera, and I can’t work out whether she thinks it’s real or not. She’s someone who was very angry at John. He promised them a life together and I think they were genuinely in love, despite the huge age difference, I think he offered her a real different future, then he literally ditched her at the border and I think that’s very painful for her and it’s taken her years to get over that.
Are you frustrated you never got to meet him?
Weirdly not. Because we’d had that initial contact and he wanted his story to be told, I felt alright about telling his story and trying to do it with truth. I think John would have appreciated that, even though it doesn’t always paint him in the greatest of light. I think he would be the world's most frustrating interviewee.
What do you hope people take from the documentary?
I think that John is someone who is difficult not to like and he lived his life in a way that’s quite intoxicating. I think we’d all like the idea of jumping on a speed boat and evading the authorities, sailing off into the sunset. But there’s real consequences to his actions and I think you see that in the film. Ultimately, I think John teaches us to accept humanity in all its flaws.
Running With The Devil: The Wild World Of John McAfee streams on Netflix from August 24.
