Heather Dubrow and Tamra Judge Say ‘RHOC’ Feels Like the “Glory Days” After a Tumultuous Season 17

Being a reality TV housewife is big business. Not just for the Bravo network which, upon the premiere of season 18 of The Real Housewives of Orange County on Thursday, marks 100 seasons of The Real Housewives franchise over a span of 18 years and 11 cities. But also for the women who are chosen to hold the highly coveted orange, peach, apple or other corresponding fruit marking their region (that has come to be a signature of the show intros) of the reality TV empire birthed by Andy Cohen.

That wasn’t always the case, though, particularly for the franchise’s earliest stars like RHOC’s Tamra Judge, who joined the show in season three and briefly parted ways with the series after 12 seasons in 2020.

“Back in those days, there was very little money to be made,” Judge tells The Hollywood Reporter. “I never thought I was going to get on the show, for one thing. And then when I did, I always thought, ‘One and done.’ And then the next season came and I’m like, ‘Oh, no, this is probably my last season, they’re going to fire me.’ And then third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, ninth. But even then, next year is not guaranteed. I never count on it financially. We work off a year contract. And if it doesn’t come next year, then you know what, there’s not much you can do about it.”

Such was the case when Judge was invited to return to RHOC in season 15 in a limited role, which she declined, opting to walk away from the franchise before she was asked back for season 17 — one season after friend and castmate Heather Dubrow reclaimed her orange after stepping away from the show that she appeared on from 2012-2016. Dubrow, who openly shares her family life with her husband, plastic surgeon and Botched co-host Terry Dubrow, and their four kids, says most of their children got to skip out on showcasing their “awkward years” as pre-teens during her hiatus from the series, but that conversations about just how much they expose about themselves are ongoing.

“As a mom, I never want to tell their stories for them,” Dubrow tells THR. “It’s sometimes difficult to walk the line between showing your family and sharing your stories, and protecting their privacy.”

The notion of privacy is one that made Dubrow the subject of a great deal of guff last season when castmate Shannon Beador accused her of spreading personal information about her relationship with John Janssen, which the OGs say continues to be an issue in season 18 with the return of another former Orange County housewife Alexis Bellino, who’s now in a relationship with Janssen.

Below, Dubrow and Judge, who chatted with THR separately (though, the two are on good terms now after a trying season 17), talk about making up, how the reality TV landscape has changed since they first started out and why when it comes to their job as reality stars, “We’re not here to pussyfoot around situations.”

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What prompted your return to RHOC?

TAMRA JUDGE They asked, and I said yes. That’s it. Very simple.

HEATHER DUBROW I laughed, to be honest, when they first called. I was like, really? Now? Why? And then I thought about it, and Terry and I talked about it. And the truth was, our oldest daughter, Max, had come out as bisexual like a year prior. And it was a conversation in our family, like, “hey, can we use this really amazing platform to start conversations in other people’s families, and show our very normal family with all these kids who are different genders and different sexualities and try to help people?”

How did it feel to be back in front of the cameras 24/7 after a break? Were there any nerves?

JUDGE I felt like there was a lot riding on it, because the show was not in a good place. The ratings were really down and if I came back and the ratings went up, that’s gonna make me look really good. So I definitely did all the things. I drank too much last season because I was nervous. And this season, you won’t see that. I’m not saying I don’t drink at all — I had one drunken moment that I’m not proud of — but other than that, I had great conversations. The show is very real this year. There’s a lot of very serious things going on.

DUBROW It was really weird. The break was good, difficult at first, because when you’ve been on a show for that many years, all of a sudden, it’s like, “Whoa, who am I off this show?”

But I found my groove. And then when I came back, it was so different, because it was really only Shannon that I knew. So I was completely restarting. Last season was better for me because I had developed friendships by that point and Tamra came back, who I am close with. But last season was a disaster for me. That was really difficult. This season, it’s pretty epic. It really feels like one of those seasons from what people consider the glory days of the show. Personally, I have to say, after the reunion last year, I had to take some time and figure out where I stand with everyone, what my relationships are and how I’m going to move forward with after that tumultuous year for me. But I’m happy to say it felt more balanced this year, and I think I got to really figure out who my true friends are.

Former Real Housewives of New York star Bethenny Frankel has been campaigning for a reality TV union and other protections for reality stars. How do you feel about her efforts?

JUDGE I’m sure some of the things she’s talked about are good, health benefits and things like that that would be amazing. Royalties, that would be amazing, too. But we signed up for this and this is what we’ve been doing. It is what it is.

What has changed most about the Reality TV star experience now from when you first joined the franchise?

JUDGE I think the world’s changed, so you’re seeing big changes in reality TV right now. We said a lot of things in the past that weren’t necessarily correct things to say. There was a lot of fighting and stuff that’s just not acceptable these days.

DUBROW The people. And it’s not just Housewives. This is reality across the board. When The Bachelor first started, they were looking for these young people — now a little bit older sometimes — who wanted to find love. They wanted to get married. But now I feel like when I see the girls and the guys vying for this person’s attention, all I’m thinking is, “You’re here to get a TikTok or an Instagram following, or to sell trucker hats or whatever it is that you want to do.” And our show is very similar. We’ve been on for so long, especially Orange County — it’s our 18th season. It’s the 100th season of the franchise. Everyone’s seen it, everyone knows it, and people come in and feel like they know how to “do the show.” That doesn’t equal success, because it’s authenticity that sells. And the reason why I believe that Housewives is such a huge hit — all the franchises — and why it resonates so much with so many people is because we are showing who we are. You are peeking in the curtains of our houses, our lives and our relationships. And if it’s not authentic, the audience has a B.S. meter and they’re not interested. It’s difficult to find people that are ready for that.

Do viewer criticisms become easier or harder to deal with after being a reality star for so long?

JUDGE I don’t care. If you’re coming for me and you’re going after me, I have to be really, really bored to communicate back. Nobody likes to hear nasty things being said about them, but in the very beginning — I’m talking before Instagram was around and it was like MySpace and Facebook — I would comment only to the bad people, which is so stupid. And now I’m like, you know what, your opinion doesn’t matter to me. That’s your opinion and I don’t really care what your opinion is. Unless it’s good (laughs).

DUBROW When I was just a scripted actress before I had my kids, we didn’t have social media. So I didn’t know any of that. When I started on Housewives and Twitter became a thing, now X, and then Instagram and all the things, it was hard to see the trolls. I’m not saying I never get affected — I do if someone writes an article about me or people will call me Coraline’s mother or something. There’s all kinds of nasty things, and then you can never be right. “You’re too thin.” “Why haven’t you gotten a facelift yet? You’re married to a plastic surgeon.” “You’re old.” You can’t listen to that stuff, and on the other hand, can you really listen to the good stuff, too? I mean, I say yes. I say listen to the good stuff. Lean into that. But I don’t get affected as much as I used to.

Shannon took serious issue with her castmates talking about her relationship with John Janssen last season and during the reunion, everyone’s response was essentially: It’s our job to be in each other’s business and to talk about it. Is that how you define your role as a Housewife?

JUDGE Definitely. It’s having those tough conversations and confronting people, as I would expect them to do to me. We’re not here to pussyfoot around situations. We’re here to bring them to the surface. There’s always that one Housewife that’s in complete denial. “That doesn’t happen.” “What are you talking about?” But I expect it from other people if I’m doing something that they are questioning, and I will do the same. And I do.

DUBROW One hundred percent. Look, we’re on a reality show where it’s understood that we’re opening up not only our lives, but our thoughts about what’s going on. Those are the confessionals. Now, here’s where it gets tricky. Just because you’re on a show like this doesn’t mean you have to show or tell everything. You’re allowed to have a modicum of privacy. But if you are opening yourself up to conversations and things on the show, of course it’s going to be talked about. Last year was difficult with Shannon, as it is usually for me with Shannon. She won’t agree with this, and that’s okay. But I had felt like she had told me things privately, as I kept saying “in the vault,” that I wouldn’t repeat, and I never did. I only talked about things she had told other people, and I stand by this to this day. By the way, we have a similar issue this season on the show where she says to me, “How could you talk about that?” I’m like, “I had already heard the story. You didn’t just tell me, you told other people. So it’s not a secret.” I’m tired. It’s tough to navigate. It’s like, so you could tell 12 people, but if I tell one person then I’m wrong?

Heather, last season you said you were done with the show in a moment of frustration following another fight with your castmates. Did you actually consider quitting?

DUBROW One hundred percent. There’s a moment where I’m on the phone and I go, “I hate them all.” Everyone thought I was talking to the producers. Everyone thought I was quitting.

I was talking to Terry. I had called Terry, and I was just so blindsided. I had no idea what was happening. I had two kids that just left for college. We sold our house, had to move out in three weeks. I had two other kids with their own issues and being on the show and being with all the girls and doing all the things. I didn’t even know how bad things were till they got so bad. I just felt like I was on an apology tour. It was all too much for me and I thought, “Maybe I can’t do this anymore.” Because it was so stressful, and I was so sad and I felt like nothing I said was right. I think the thing that really embodied how I felt, and I believe I said it to them at that last lunch in Tulum, it’s like when you like someone, you sort of forgive their little foibles and their idiosyncrasies. But when you want to have a problem with someone, it’s all bad. You just look for things, you know? Instead of going, “yeah, that’s just Tamra,” or, “yeah, this is Heather, that’s what she does,” they hang on it. And I thought, “God, they just don’t like me. Why am I here?”

Tamra, why did everyone seem to have an issue with Heather last season?

JUDGE I know, poor Heather. It was bad for her. Heather and I are good. Heather and I have always been good. Heather was in my wedding. We’ve always remained really good friends. There were some things that had been said off camera that were brought to my attention that irritated me and irritated her, so we didn’t have a great season last year. But we did have fun last season. And this year we have so much fun. We laughed so much. We’re really back on track.

This season, another RHOC OG, Alexis Bellino, makes a comeback. How did you feel about her return?

JUDGE if you were to ask me that two years ago, I would say, “Hell no, I don’t want her back.” But I met her at BravoCon, and with Andy [Cohen] standing over us, we had a very deep conversation about the past and where she is today, and regrets and things like that and we became very close. Now one thing about Alexis is she doesn’t have a mean bone in her body. It’s just not her nature. And I’m a little spicy at times. You will see a different Alexis this season. You’re going to see an Alexis that is not being held back. One that’s very vocal and one that’s funny, quirky, loud, sad. She was going through a lot, and this is what makes it so sad is that she’s getting beat up. But people don’t know she had lost her mom recently. She had broken off an engagement. She was going through a lot of stuff. She had gotten divorced. Do I’m hoping that people aren’t judging her just because she’s dating John Janssen. To be honest with you, Shannon dated another housewife’s ex. Tammy Knickerbocker’s. They were never married. But it’s all fair in love and war, right?

DUBROW I’ve been campaigning for Alexis to come back for two years. I was really excited. I know the whole thing with John Janssen is odd and difficult. It’s difficult for Shannon. It’s difficult for Alexis. Probably difficult for John. It’s difficult for all of us figuring out how to navigate the whole thing. But I think apart from that, I really hope that the audience gets to see how much Alexis has evolved as a person since they last saw her. Because she is different. She is strong and independent and great.

Is there any other OG you want to see return?

DUBROW I think right now, to be honest, it’s not that I wouldn’t want anyone else to come back. But at some point you do need to keep moving forward. This cast that we had this year was very, very good. There are genuine relationships. And what’s interesting about Alexis is, she and I have become close over the last few years, and last year at BravoCon she and Tamara had a full, makeup moment together and really became friends. So it’s been really nice to be with a group of people that are your genuine counterparts, even if you’re not super close with them. Look, me and Shannon have had our ups and downs and whatnot, but I care for her so much. I really do. We were texting the other day, and it was something about the kids and I just feel like she’s family. It’s nice to be with a group like that. And I do attribute a lot of how good this season is to that very thing.

Former RHOBH star Taylor Armstrong was the first housewife to crossover from another franchise when she became a friend of RHOC in season 17. Is there anyone you’d like to bring over from another Housewives series?

JUDGE I would always love to bring Teddi Mellencamp over, although she’s not on Beverly Hills anymore. I feel like she fits in very well in Orange County and she has a house in Orange County, and she knows half the cast members on the show. I don’t think that would be great for our podcast together [Two Ts In A Pod], but I think that she could bring a lot to the show.

DUBROW To be honest, I would just like to see it continue to be a connected group, and that whomever ends up joining is someone that’s really integrated into one of our lives. Because that’s when it works the best.

RHOC season 18 premieres at 9 p.m. on Bravo and releases new episodes every Thursday.