How to Know if You've Been Lying to Yourself & Learn to Get Comfortable Being Honest With Yourself and Others with Charlamange Tha God

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I want to wake up more happy and depressed. I
want to enjoy life. I'm not the final form of myself.
I don't know what that's going to be. He's one
of the most influential voices in morning radio. Yes the
world most Dangerous Morning Shot to Breakfast Club. Charlemagne's like, gosh,
I had no idea who I was. There was this
character that have been created named Charlamagne. I'm like, I

(00:21):
don't know who this person is. At some point I
remember saying to myself, well, what's wrong meedd?

Speaker 2 (00:25):
I thought it was okay, Hey everyone, I've got some
huge news to share with you. In the last ninety days,
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There's research that shows that if you want to create

(00:45):
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Speaker 3 (01:05):
The number one health and wellness podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Jay Sheet, Jay shedny Y everyone, welcome back to On Purpose,
the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed.
I'm so grateful that you're lending me your eyes and
your ears for this time, investing in your growth. And
today's guest is someone who I'm so grateful to because

(01:28):
he came on the show back five years ago when
we were just starting out. The platform was not established,
and I'd reached out to him and I said, hey,
I'd love to interview you. He came on as one
of our earliest guests, did me a massive favor. Over
the last few years, I've been on his incredible show,
The Breakfast Club so many times now. Some of my
favorite conversations brings out a different side of me. I

(01:51):
get to have an honest, vulnerable, truthful, reflective conversation. And
he's a New York Times bestseller and his new book
is out right now. It's called Get Honest or Die Lying.
Why small talk sucks. I'm talking about the One, the Only, Charlemagne,
the God Charlemagne. It is so great to have you
back on Purpose and honestly, man, the friendship and the

(02:12):
genuine connection that we've built over the last few years
has been a real honor for me. And as I said,
I'm very grateful to you because you believed in me
when I was just starting out and it really meant
a lot to me and still does today.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
Man, thank you for that. I received that.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
And to see you grow into you know, your purpose,
you know, and see you have this massive platform has
been amazing to watch.

Speaker 3 (02:31):
So thank you.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
I'm happy to be here, happy to be here with
one of my favorite people and on one of my
favorite podcasts.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Thank you man.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Well, let's dat straight into it, because you put this
book out and I think it's really true to the
times that we live in. I think we're living in
times that are defined by quarrel, defined by hypocrisy, defined
by lack of self awareness, defined by gossip. And here's

(02:57):
a book talking about all of that. And I wanted
to start off simply by asking you, why have you
built up such an animosity towards small talk? Where does
that come from?

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well?

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Number one, I hate small talk, you know, just on
the literal level. Right when somebody sees you and they
try to, you know, make conversation and they're not really
talking about anything, and it's just like, you know, you
and this person are in this unique moment in time
where y'all get to share space and nobody is saying
anything that is annoying to me, And it's annoying to

(03:27):
the point where I'm like, I would rather just tell
the person like, Oh, we don't have to do this.
We can be on our phones, we can be reading
the book, we can sit here in silence, like you
don't have to try, you know, to make conversation.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
But then on a.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
More macro level, I feel like we're having too much
small talk. You know, we're having too many micro conversations.
We're taking these micros and making them macros. Like the
things that people you know, get online and discuss and
debate about and argue about.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Over and over and over and over.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
And the biggest scheme of things mean nothing. And that's
why things just come and go in this era. Every
day you get online and you know, it looks like
there's a conversation that's the biggest thing in the world.
Wait three hours, Wait four hours, wait twelve hours, it'll
be completely gone and it'll be like, well, damn, I
thought everybody was so concerned about this, you know, two
days ago. So I just have a problem with everything

(04:22):
being so macro that shouldn't be nowadays, and the things
that we should be discussing, like the big macro conversations,
we have a way of making those so micro and
that's the background noise. That's why, even like you know,
on Breakfast Club or a my podcast Brilliant Idiots, when
we do discuss things right that might be rooted in
pop culture, I'm always trying to see, like, what's the

(04:44):
bigger conversation that we can be having behind this. It
can't just be that y'all think this person is a
terrible person, that was a bad tweet. Like what's the
psychology or what's the thing that we can you know,
discuss that people are gonna actually learn from.

Speaker 3 (04:59):
That's what I I want to do.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
And how do you break that cycle? Let's say you
bump into someone that you haven't seen for a bit,
and I think a lot of people struggle with this.
She's at a party an event in the corridor and
you go, hey, how's going, Oh yeah good, yeah, cool,
and you know you're not listening. You know, there's no
real thing. How do you break that? If you can?
So one example is you say, look, we don't have
to do this? How do you break it in a
positive sense? Like how even people with their friends, with

(05:24):
their family or our family dinner and everyone's talking about whatever,
how do you actually break that and elevate that, Like
what's a healthy way.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Tell them be honest about what you're feeling in that moment, Like, Yo,
we ain't talking about nothing right now. I'd be like, yo,
well who's going to start the conversation? Throw something on
the table? Like literally, that's what this book is. This
book is literally just a series of topics that I
feel like, you know, you could just throw in at
a lunch throwing at a dinner table, you know, throwing
if you're just sitting around on a plane with somebody

(05:52):
and you want to have a conversation but you can't,
Like we make this a lot more difficult than we
need to, and it takes is for somebody to break
the ice. That's all you're literally waiting for, and you're
sitting at it. You know, you're sitting around with somebody.
You're just like I want to talk, but I just
don't know what to say, and you're thinking, should I
bother this person? Should I not bother this person? Does
this person want to be bothered. Does this person want

(06:13):
to talk? Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Maybe that's
a question, right, You can ask them, like you feel
like having a conversation. If that person says no, respect that,
don't ask them that, hoping that they say yes. But
if they say no, you're still going to force them
to have the conversation. Like sometimes you should just ask
a person like, yo, you got time to talk? How
often do you get that?

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Jay? Exactly?

Speaker 1 (06:35):
People just run up to you and they just throw
their stuff on you all the time, instead of saying, yo, Jay,
you got time to speak right now? And if you
say not, at the moment they're offended. You may not
want to offend them, so you take time to have
this meaningless conversation, this small talk. You're just telling them yeah,
just because you don't want to offend them. But then
you're not even really paying attention. So nobody's doing it.

(06:58):
We're not doing each other any favors about doing so
just be honest about what you're feeling in that moment.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah, And I feel like the reason you pointed out there,
the reason why so many of us are struggling to
be honest with people is because people are offended by honesty,
even if it's genuine, and even if it's thoughtful, like
you just said, Like if I asked you, I was like, hey, Charlamann,
can you talk about this? And you were like, Jeae,
I don't have time right now because of this, this
and this or whatever. I'm in between something. As a

(07:24):
respectful person back, I'm going to like, I understand that
I actually had someone that message this morning. I'd message
someone inviting them to an event and they didn't get
back to me, and they messaged me this morning and
we're just like, Jay, I'm so sorry. I was like
getting ready for the mat and my outfit went wrong
and then like I had to figure this out and
it's been crazy and it all worked out, but I
wanted you to know, you know, I always respond to you.

(07:45):
And I was like, yeah, I wasn't offended at all.
I respect that and thank you for explaining and it
turned out. But a lot of the times I feel
we're scared of being honest because we're scared the other
person's going to turn around and go, oh, you never
get back to me, Oh you think you're too important
for me. We are scared of offending people. We don't
stop being so offended, because I feel like anything offends
anyone these days.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
That's a multi laying answer, right, because number one, I
think we have to stop being people pleases. And I
think that you know, if you grow up in a
certain environment, you've had certain things you know happened to you.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
Like my therapist always told me.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
Like, I know exactly why I'm a people pleaser, right,
and I talk about it in the book. I'm a
people pleaser because you know of abuse to ourselves at.

Speaker 3 (08:24):
The age of eight.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
Right, So me not wanting that young lady to touch
me anymore turned into her calling me ugly and saying
I had a big nose. So in order for her
to stop doing that, I would continue to let her,
you know, touch on me. So it's like, you don't
realize how that carries on into adulthood to where you
just become this people pleaser. You don't want to let

(08:45):
anybody down because if you feel like you let them down,
then they're going to start speaking ill about you and
doing things that hurt your feelings.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
So you just continue to do what's best for them,
sacrificing your own piece.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
And we can't do that, you just got to set
boundaries for yourself and be like, yo, I'm not going
to be a people pleaser in any way, shape or form.
And man, honestly, if my boundaries, you know, caused somebody
to feel offended, then that's the whole point of having
the boundary in the first place.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
I kind of have a boundary from.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
This person to begin with, because you're upset with me,
because I'm placing a boundary for my peace of mind.

Speaker 3 (09:23):
Nah, I don't need you on my life to begin with.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah, how early? Well, when were you ready to revisit
that eight year old self? Like when did you feel
comfortable to even reflect back on that in therapy? Because
I imagine that, or you can tell me when you
were eight did you just block it out in the
next few years and then when did you go back
to it and say, oh, actually, that's where a lot
of it started.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
I was watching an episode of Open Winford and Tyler
Perry was on there, and Tyler Perry was, you know,
crying about the abuse that he experienced from a woman
in his family. And I think I was in my twenties,
and I remember saying to myself, like, what's wrong with him?

Speaker 3 (10:00):
Why is he you know, upset about that.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
And then when at some point I remember saying to myself, well,
what's wrong needed I thought it was okay, but then
you kind of suppressed it again because I wasn't going
to therapy on my twenties. But when I started going
to therapy in like my late like mid thirties, that's
when I started to unpack a whole lot of that stuff,
because you know, you go to therapy for one thing,
You go to therapy because you're dealing with you think

(10:24):
you're dealing with anxiety and depression. Then you start peeling
back all of these different layers and you start realizing
all of this other trauma you know that you've experienced,
and you know that was that was one of those
things like you know, being a people pleaser, not setting
proper boundaries because of that moment that happened to me,
you know, when I.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Was eight years old, and carried on throughout my whole whole.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
Adult life until I finally realized, like, oh, this is
why I don't like letting people down. This is why
I do things, you know, for people even when I
don't want to. This is why even if I'm not
happy necessarily about doing something. I just go along to
do it because I don't want to upset or offend
that person, to cause that person to be, you know,

(11:05):
looking at me in a negative way. So I would
say like mid thirties is when I really started unpacking it.
So it's probably been like the last ten years of
really unpacking it.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
And when you ate, how long did that abuse lost?
Like how recurring was it?

Speaker 1 (11:20):
And I don't know, man, because and I even mentioned
it in the book, I suppressed so much abuse that
I experienced when I was young that it wasn't even
that one person, you know, but you just you suppress
it because in a lot of ways, it becomes the norm.
Like I remember being young, like nine, ten eleven years old,

(11:44):
having conversations with other young men I grew up around,
and we were all talking about older women we was
dealing with, and we thought we was lying to each other.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
But now when you look back.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
On it, it was just all a bunch of young
kids getting abused. But when you were a young man,
you don't look at it like that. When you were
a young man and you're just like, oh, I'm getting
action early. You know, I'm getting action early, and I'm
getting action with older women early, so you don't look
at it like that until you get older and realize
how man, how a lot of that impacts you, you know,
like mentally and emotionally.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, what were some of the ways that you think
that impacted you? And it's interesting, I love what you
said that, like, when you're young, you actually see that
as like ego, bravardo, arrogance, Like it's cool. What were
the things that you started to extrapolate through therapy and
the work you did where you're like, oh, that's the
kind of impact that it's had in my real life
and my real adult life.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
The biggest one for me is the people pleasing aspect.
That's literally the biggest one. Like not having no boundaries
and when I did try to set boundaries with one
of the women in particular, her you know, getting in
my head psychologically, calling me ugly and saying I got
a big nose and all of this other stuff. So
for me, the biggest, you know, issue was the fact

(12:54):
that I just did not know how to set proper boundaries.
And when I did set them, it was like it
wasn't the brick house, it was the straw house. You know,
you could just blow it, you could just blow it away.
So I never really set any proper boundaries. It wasn't
until I started unpacking a lot of that stuff that
I realized, like, no, I'm gonna set my boundary and

(13:15):
I'm not gonna be upset at you know, any bad,
big bad wolf that's mad that they can't blow my
house down.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
What I find interesting especially is I think we all
developed a peacemaker people pleaser personality type through different reasons.
How have you found yourself not being a people pleased
with your therapist? Because I find a lot of people
end up playing that role where they can't be honest
with their therapist because we want our therapists to like

(13:43):
us and say well done, like good work, you know,
like oh you really? So how did you find yourself
getting that ability? Because I think a lot of people
listening and watching maybe going to therapy. They may be
trying to turn to help, but actually they find themselves
playing that same role with that therapist.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Man, I got a new therapist know this passion, and
my first therapist I might have been lying to her
probably fifty sixty percent of the time, just because there
was so many things that I thought I wanted to share,
but I wasn't, and it wasn't until earlier this year,

(14:21):
you know, having me and my wife went away on
this nice little spiritual retreat for a weekend, and you know,
we was indulging in plant based medicines, you know, ayahuasca
in particular, and one of the things that came forth
for me was literally stop lying to yourself and stop
volunteering those lies to other people. And so much came

(14:44):
up in that moment, you know, so much, you know,
like I said, abuse to that experienced as a child,
all of that type of stuff. And that's when I
was like, oh, I've been I've been telling half truths.
I haven't been being completely honest, like I've been telling,
you know, just enough of a of a story to
get just enough back. But that's not how you you know,

(15:07):
properly heal anything, Like you gotta deal with it all,
you know, don't even don't even don't even try. And
so for me, I feel like, you know, I probably
was lying to like my first therapist for like, I
would literally probably stay half of the time.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
And do you think we do that because we're actually
scared of having that address?

Speaker 1 (15:26):
Is that the reason one hundred it's still fear, it's
still insecurity that we're not willing to share with anyone.
Like even that night that I was, you know that
that that that first but that was the second night
of the journey on ayahuasca. Like me and my wife
been together twenty six years, and I was sharing things
with her that I never had shared with any anybody,

(15:49):
and that felt so so, so so freeing, And even
in that moment, I'm like, I don't think there's anybody
else I trust to share these things with, not even
a a therapist, no matter how good the therapist is,
no matter how you know, great, the therapist is. Like
this individual that I've shared majority of my life with
is the only person I feel comfortable, you know, putting

(16:13):
all that on the table for Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
I think that's a really interesting point because I think
the words honesty and vulnerability have somewhat been exploited in
and of themselves in this idea that if you're honest,
everyone has to know everything, like you have to just
put it all out there. What you just said is actually,
even with my therapist, they're not going to get one

(16:35):
hundred percent version of me because my wife, my partner,
who's been with me for over twenty years now, it's
like that person not only deserves it, but we've built
up enough trust and there's earned respect where we both
can share that. What's been your take on the Internet,
like oversharing, undersharing, overtelling, undertelling, Because I feel like there

(16:58):
was a point in time where it's like, if you're
vulner you better say everything to everyone, right, Like that's
what vulnerability is. And I think there was like this
false pressure that you had to share all your business
with everyone.

Speaker 1 (17:09):
Yeah, I think on the Internet a lot of people
crying out for help who probably not probably who need
to be in therapy actually talking to somebody, And there's
a whole lot of people just lying. But that's what
I mean when I say, you know, stop lying to
yourself and stop volunteering those lies to other people. Every
single day people wake up and just volunteer lies for

(17:29):
no reason. And I'm not saying lives have to be negative,
Like they just lie about their life, They lie about
who they are, they lie about what they do, and
it's like nobody asked you for that, Like nobody, So
you're inviting all of this negative energy into your life.
You're inviting all of this opinion and all of this critique.
That's literally going to have real world consequences because that's

(17:49):
the stuff that's going to give you anxiety. That's the
stuff that's going to, you know, cause you to have
a Boucher depression and you're you're going to be sitting
there dealing with all of this stuff for you created
like what is the point of that? So it's like
for me, man, we really all just have to stop volunteering,
you know, the lies we tell ourselves to others.

Speaker 2 (18:13):
Yea, what led you towards plant medicine is a method
of healing, as a method of reflection? Like what made
you go down that route? Because you've done therapy for years,
you've talked about it, you're a big ambassador for mental health.
What was the opening there?

Speaker 1 (18:27):
I mean, it was just something I wanted to try
and then they always say, you know, you don't you
don't do it unless it's calling you. And so you know,
just reading about it and you know, seeing you know,
what other people's take on it was like two things
that really attracted me was everybody that did it was
telling me like, y'all I saw God, like I knew
people who were atheists, like like Neil Brennan was an

(18:49):
atheist and he did it and now he's like a
believer and you know, and I was like, whoa. And
I've always had faith and I've always been a believer.
So I just wanted to kind of see, like I
want to see, you know, see see more of that.
And I think people saying how it detaches you from
your ego, Like I thought that was very powerful because

(19:09):
that's something that we all try to do every day.
But they was like, no, it feels like somebody literally
takes your ego and just rips it away from you.

Speaker 3 (19:17):
And I wanted to know what that felt like.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
And man, absolutely overstand what it felt like, especially that
that that second night.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Yea, where did you go for it? Where did you
try it out?

Speaker 3 (19:31):
I was in I was in California, Okay.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
Okay, okay, great, Great, you didn't go too far? No,
because I've heard of I've had friends go out to
like Costa Rica and then you and.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yeah, Sean, and I talked to was like, welly, I
even I think it was. I don't know it was
Perule coach Riga was somewhere. I forgot where it was.
But he was just like that's a jungle. He was like,
you don't want to have that kind of experience in
the jungle. I mean he wasn't knocking anybody. He just like,
for you on your first time, I just don't, you know,
recommend that. So it was just kind of like the
vine alignment, Like it was one of those things like
it had been calling me for the.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Past I would say, five or six years.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
Wow, and then like the opportunity just presented itself, you know,
with some with some some people with some really great energy.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
And I was like, yeah, why not and it just
all lined up.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
It's one of those things is like, oh, I'm actually
treat this weekend.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
Yeah, the wife wanted to do it. We went to
do it.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
It's beautiful. What did you What have you found? Has
been the hardest thing for you to be honest with
yourself about everything everything.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
You know, it's so easy for us to get caught
up in line ourselves because we do it to protect
ourselves in a lot of way. Right, So, like it
might be a person that you genuinely have love for,
like genuinely just as on a human level, Like you
love this person and like you know this person might
have a talent or skill set that you know you
want to help amplify, like provide an opportunity for but

(20:57):
you know as well as I do that you know,
character talent sometimes will take people with character can't sustain them.
So even though you see this person's talent, you know,
once they get in a certain position, you realize that
character isn't going to be able you know, to keep
them there, but you will constantly lie to yourself about
this person's character over and over and over and over,

(21:20):
and then you wonder why things aren't working out, and literally,
it will affect everything that you're doing. Like let's just
say it's a team and you put this person as
part of the team, and this person is causing problems
with the rest of the team, and you see it,
but you make any excuses for it, you know. And
it's like even a friend that you might have been

(21:40):
friends with a person for a long, long, long time,
and you know, y'all have very deep intimate conversations, so
you know this person differently than a lot of other
people know them. So you get a soft spot, you know,
in your heart for said individuals. So when you're hearing
everybody else talk about how terrible this person is. You're
lying to yourself about it. You're like, no, y'all just
don't understand this person. Like it's like, no, the reality

(22:02):
is they are a terrible person and they need to
do more work and they need to really, you know,
figure themselves out. So you know the biggest thing, Yeah,
it's just we constantly a lot ourselves about everything. You
might you might look in the mirror and know you
need to lose twenty pounds, Like you might put a
shirt on and know it don't quite fit right, but

(22:22):
you'll pull on it and tug it, and you know,
how does this look? You know, somebody like, oh, it
looks like it look good and you're like, hey, it does.
And then you get on Instagram and then you get
humbled because it's a bunch of people that don't know
you at all who are willing to tell you the
truth about how you look. Then you out to yourself
again and you say this stuff, Oh, they just hating.
You knew that was whack when you put it on.
You knew you had no right putting that shirt on

(22:45):
before you put it on, but you decided to do
it anyway.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
So I just feel like we. I think every single
moment of.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
Our lives is an exercise in being honest with ourselves
first and foremost, and then the rest of them world,
and then choosing who to share that honesty with, because
sometimes people aren't lying.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
It's just none of your business.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
And I think that's something that people forget too, especially
in this.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
World of oversharing.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
I have to constantly remind people that, especially in this
era of the Internet. I'm like, when you're talking about celebrities,
you don't know any of these people. I don't care
what they post on social I don't care what you
hear in their music. You genuinely do not know any
of these individuals.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Stop lying yourself like you do in what sense? Because
I'm thinking of something, But in what sense do you mean?
Like we don't know the more? How that applies to us?
You think we're commentating on a life that we don't
know about it.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
People?

Speaker 1 (23:41):
You know, people past these judgments, Like you'll see whole
psycho analysts about people, right, and it's like, how did
you come to that conclusion?

Speaker 3 (23:53):
Like literally you're breaking down a person's whole path.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Oh, they're are narcissists and they're egotistical, and they're out
for this. I'm like, how do you know based off
a tweet? How do you know based off one conversation
that they had? You don't know this person. This person
has lived, you know, thirty plus years, forty plus years,
whatever it is. You do not spend every waking moment
with this individual. How do we come to these full

(24:18):
blown conclusions about people that we don't know. I had
somebody get mad at the other day because I told
them I don't know this person personally. We were talking
about an artist, and I was like, I don't know
that person personally. Now that the person I was talking
to did so, I understand how they felt, But I
don't have that same personal connection or feelings towards this

(24:41):
individual because I don't have a personal connection with them.
And when it comes to public figures, a lot of
times it makes you more objective because you don't have
any bias, because anybody that you actually have a connection with,
you're going to have a natural bias toward them.

Speaker 3 (24:56):
That's another thing we lie to each other about.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
We lie to each other like whereas so honest and
so objective when we all have our biases for people,
we all have our biases for places.

Speaker 3 (25:06):
We all have our biases for things, and that's okay.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, And if you can address that and say, yeah,
I know I got a bias, then you could actually
have an honest conversation about whatever it is you're talking about.
Our look at things, you know, from an honest perspective.
If you can't even be honest about your biases, then
you're starting off from a lie.

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah. I often find it's this observer mindset that we're missing,
where it's like, okay, we're having a conversation right now,
but can I actually allow myself to look at it
from this perspective? If I can't do that, like if
I can't see, oh, I'm currently displaying ego and the
other person is currently displaying defensiveness. If I can't see

(25:46):
what I'm displaying and what someone else is and I'm
only seeing what they're displaying, then I'm not really observing.
I can't be objective absolutely, and I find that that's
exactly what's missing where and I can testify to what
you just said, whether it's inaccurate guest lists at people's
wedding that are printed in the papers, or whether it's
inaccurate oh, I know the news saying oh, they're going

(26:07):
to get a divorce, or their kids hate them, or
whatever else it is. You notice, Yeah, I can testify
to having knowing people going None of that's true. And
it goes back to the point you started with, which
is this idea of we get so lost commentating on
everything and everyone else that we know nothing about that

(26:27):
we don't have time and energy to work on what's
going on inside here. Absolutely, and I find it remarkable
that we spend our lives trying to solve, psychoanalyze, entertain
ourselves by someone else's problems rather than fixing our own.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
We do that on purpose, because if we can talk
about everybody else, then we can avoid that hard, painful,
excruciating work it takes to deal with our own bs. I.
If I can look at everyone else, I can avoid
looking in.

Speaker 3 (26:58):
That mirror all day long.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
I'm too busy sight seeing other people and commentating on
other people, so I never have to look.

Speaker 3 (27:05):
In the mirror. You know, at at at what it
is that I need to fix. Yah.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah, you said something that's interesting too, man, And that's
why that's why this error we're in is so difficult.
And I think even you know, our positions as media personalities,
because you know, I remember when I used to work
for Wendy Wims. She used to always say to me,
you're either gonna be of the people or of the industry.
But it's almost impossible when you're in the business, because

(27:30):
you're gonna actually meet people and you're gonna develop relationships.
And I think a lot of times when we have
a different perspective of things because we're kind of in it.

Speaker 3 (27:41):
Like I've literally been with individuals.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Couples, watching them love on each other, watching them kiss
on each other, and then it'll be like breaking news
they're getting a.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Divorce, they hate each other, like they're a part.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
And I'm like, this is a mind because I'm like, whoa,
And it puts so much in perspective, and not even
just that, like us as individuals, you'll see things about
yourself and you like that's not remotely true, Like that's
not even accurate at all, And everybody around you will

(28:17):
be mad, and everybody around you be upset, and you'll
be pissed off too. But then you have to really
say to yourself, what are you gonna do. I'm not
going I refuse to go on the defensive and start
explaining to myself to a bunch of people who never
even took the time to learn the truth. Anyway, if
you didn't, you never took the time to learn the truth.
So you would rather just put this out there, you know,

(28:38):
printice say these things, not care if you're accurate, you know, not,
not care if there's any falsehoods, You just whatever. So
why would I take the time to explain the truth
to you?

Speaker 4 (28:50):
Now?

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Now not only am I validating what you've said to
a certain extent or not now what you said, but
validating you and your platform.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Now I'm actually giving you more content. Yeah, yeah, I'm
not doing that at all.

Speaker 2 (29:05):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, I was going to go
back to the personal again with you, because I feel
like a big turning point in your book that you
talk about that a calm wait for people to dive into,
is this moment where you realize that your father was
cheating on your mom, and like that is like a
really big moment for you at that point because you're, like,
I think, seventeen years old and you're learning about this

(29:26):
and naturally you feel like, tell me how you felt
like in that moment, because it almost feels like the
first time you discovered that something's alie, like in a
big way.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
I mean, yeah, that was a very macro conversation, you know,
because I had made up my mind in that moment
that me and my pops couldn't have no small talk
about this situation because you know, we live in a
small town, so you're hearing it constantly, right, and you're
you're driving by, you know, this house, and you're seeing

(29:56):
his truck out there, and you know, you're fully aware
of all of the different eyes that he's that He's
told my mom like, oh, I'm just I'm over there
doing work. Oh, that's my secretary, all this other stuff. Right,
So finally, you know, just deciding to have the macro
conversation and say, Yo, you out of hit cheating, No mom,
what you do in is file.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
And my dad was like, yo, you only got one girlfriend.
You know one day you.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Gonna understand, like he that's what That was his reply
to me, and that that messed me up for a
while because that's my hero. Like still to this day,
I love my dad. Like my dad, I fully understand,
you know, the totality of my father as a man
and as I've become a man myself. At forty five
years old, I overstand you know, everything that you know
he went through. And so when he said that to me,

(30:44):
I felt like I had to live up to his expectations.
So that's when it became a thing of oh, let
me show him that I can get a roster. I
don't have to be, you know, committed to one person.
And yo, that lasted for a while, not not a while,
but too long for my liking, right, And so I

(31:05):
remember later on years down the line, my dad saying
to me, you know, the worst thing that he ever
did was caused my mother to leave him, and telling
me that I always had it right, because he you know,
I'm with the same woman right for twenty six years.
He was like telling me I always had it right,
and I'm like, damn, that's why you shouldn't always listen
to a dotes bro. Like, just because you love a

(31:28):
person and they're older than you and they got more
experiences than you, don't mean that they're always right. But
I give my father so much grace because, you know,
one of the first breakthrough, the first breakthrough I ever
had in therapy, I mean, the thing that led me
to tears. Was just realizing that my father used to
discipline me for things that he never taught me. And
now I even take it a step further and say,

(31:49):
my father used to discipline me for things that he
never taught me, but also for things that he never
learned himself. So a lot of his his his his
his raising of me was he was raising me through
fear and not love, right, so because he just didn't
want me to make the same mistakes.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
That he made.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
He was terrified of me going down, you know, the
same path that he went down, and I ended up
going down that path anyway, like even down to you know,
the mental health journey. Like when I wrote my second book,
you know, Shook One anxiety playing tricks on me. When
I wrote that, I was all the way discombobulated. I
had no idea whether I was coming or going because

(32:27):
I had just started going to therapy and I had
just started peeling back a lot of those layers.

Speaker 3 (32:31):
So I was just raw, like I had.

Speaker 1 (32:34):
I had no idea who I was. There was this
character that had been created named Charlamagne. I'm like, I
don't know who this person is. Then I'm dealing with
Leonard myself. I don't know who this person is. So
I was just all over the place, and I literally
just put it all in that book and had a
doctor ish major do clinical correlations to the things that
I was talking about. But he, my father, had read

(32:56):
that book and I talk about this story in the book,
but he had read that book. And that same week,
I had a cousin who had completed suicide. And he
had attempted to complete suicide like four other times, and
the fourth time he completed it. I think he was
like twenty five years old. So my dad was triggered
by a.

Speaker 3 (33:11):
Lot of that stuff.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
He was triggered by a lot of the stuff I
wrote in my book, and he was definitely triggered by
my cousin completing suicide. So my father calls me and
he tells me, you know, he read the book talking
about my cousin a little bit and he goes, man,
you know, I tried to commit suicide thirty plus years ago,
but I didn't because of you know, your older sister
and you. And he was like, you know, I was
on two to three medications. No, he was actually on

(33:35):
ten to twelve medications and he was going to therapy
two and three times a week dealing with his own
mental health issues, and so much so that the state
of Sart Carolina just started giving him a check. And
that's what they used to call it, a crazy check.
So I remember asking my mom, like, yo, you know,
you know Dad was going through all of this, and
she was like, I just thought he was playing crazy
to get a check. So just think about that, Like,

(33:56):
think about if he was able to just express self
and have those conversations with us as a family back then,
how that would have saved me, you know, so much
grieful when I was dealing with panic attacks and stuff
as a child and thinking something was you know, you know,
wrong with me, And.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Just all of that makes me give my father a
whole lot of grace.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
He's just a man who was just trying to do
his best, you know, with what he had and the
knowledge he had at the time. So I don't hold
I held a lot of that against him for.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
A long, long, long, long time.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
But it was in that moment in twenty eighteen when
he told me everything he was dealing with. I don't
know why, it just clicked, Like my dad just a man, Yeah,
Like he just a man, Just like I'm a man, like,
who am I to not give him the same grace
I want.

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Totally what's allowed you to have that Charlaman to be
able to zoom out and have that context and that
grace because I think when we're analyzing these things and
you kind of connect the DUTs, you're like, oh, yeah,
my dad treat me like that. That's why I became
like that, That's why I made that mistake. And you
can spend so much time in this very linear back
and forth journey of that was the past, that's how

(35:08):
it connects to the present, that's how it impacted my life.
But you're almost looking at it from a bird's eye
view looking down, going, oh that makes sense, So my
dad went through and then you can give grace, you
can have what was the key in therapy and in
your personal work that shifted it from being this linear
thing to being a bird's eye view of this situation.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
I honestly think I've always had that as a child,
like always like I've always had a bird's eye view
with things, Like I've always felt in tune to something
to something else, Like there was always like this voice
in my head or this spirit that was you know,
moving me in certain directions are causing me to see

(35:50):
certain things. Sometimes I will see things I wasn't supposed
to see, you know, literally and figuratively, right, And I've
always had these visions, and I just I remember my
dad always telling me when I was a child, if
you don't change your ways, you gonna.

Speaker 3 (36:04):
End up in jail, dead or broke under the tree.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
And a lot of people hear that but don't actually
learn that and apply that. For some reason, I was
able at a young age to actually start seeing people
that I love go to jail, like for prison sentences.
And I was going to jail, and you know, I
saw people around me that were actually getting killed. And
I saw older cousins who I used to look up to.
They are sitting under the tree kind of like not

(36:29):
doing much with themselves.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
And I'm like, oh, that's not gonna be me.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
And I literally could see, all right, everything I do
today directly is gonna impact what happens to me tomorrow.
So I need to start doing what I need to
do today. It's like, yo, if I, you know, continue
to eat like this, I'm gonna be fat in the future. Right, Like,
if I don't read this book. You know, my knowledge
is gonna be limited in the future. So I've always,

(36:54):
you know, by the grace of God, just tended to
have like a bird's eye view with things like my
third eye is has been opened for quite a long time,
like to the point even when I think about, like
me and my wife had a nonprofit back in the day,
Well we thought it was a nonprofit when we set
it up. We set it up as a nonprofit, but

(37:14):
we never went through the proper channels to make it
a nonprofit. It just sounded like, oh, we go set this,
you know, it's one of those things.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
And so we had.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
It was called third eye awareness, like literally that's what
it was called. Even when like the first tattoo I
ever got was Wolverine from The X Men, because I
love Wolverine, right, I love the x Men. I'm a
big comic book guy. But back then I got the
tattoo when I was like seventeen years old. This one,
tattoos were illegal in South Carolina. I got the tattoo
because the thing that attracted me towards Wolverine was his

(37:42):
healing powers. And so the tattoo I got on my
arm is Wolverine holding a microphone in his hand because
I thought rap was gonna be what changed my life.
But lo and behold, it was these type of microphones
that changed my life. And you know, now I feel
like my purpose in life is to not only continue
to heal myself, but to continue to help as many

(38:06):
other people.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
You know, get on there, get on their healing journey.

Speaker 1 (38:09):
So I was sixteen seventeen years old thinking about stuff
like this. Sixteen seventeen, you get a tattooed like that,
and in your mind you're explaining it perfectly. I'm like, yo,
I'm attracted the wolvernverine because of his healing.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Powers, and then.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Wrapped the microphone.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
But now I'm forty five, about to be forty six,
I'm looking at it like, oh, I understand what that
was now. And that was another revelation that came to me,
you know, when I went on my Awaska journey, it
was like, Yo, nothing has been wasted, literally nothing. There
is absolutely nothing that has happened to me in my life.

Speaker 3 (38:45):
Whether you want to label a good, bad, you know.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
Ugly, pretty, whatever it was, nothing has gone to waste
in my life. Every single thing has a purpose and
had a purpose and has gotten me to this point.
And I think, man, when you look at things through
that lens, it just kind of like shapes. It shapes
your understanding of trauma, and you know why so called

(39:11):
bad things happen in a different way.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
I don't look at it as good or bad.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
It was just like one process of life that gets
you to this point.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
I think, you just nail something so powerful. Then I
want to emphasize it for people because I think we
go through this loop where we say, oh, now I
get it. Everything else I was wrong, I wasted time.
Now I get it, and then a few years later
we go, oh, no, no, no, I just waste the last
few years. Now I get it. And we constantly have
this belief that we have to neglect and reject our

(39:42):
past in order to establish our present. We feel like
we have to constantly say our past was a waste
of time in order to establish that our present is
now us doing the right thing. And I actually fully
agree with you and completely disagree with that, because what
you're doing is you're negating all of the lessons, all
of the wisdom, all of the learning, all of the

(40:03):
growth that actually got you to that point. Absolutely and
then you're also negating the fact that all the skills
you learn during that time, all the habits, they could
still be useful. But because you're writing off that time,
you're writing off all of that growth. And I've been
saying that so many people lately. Even when people are
like I think I'm wasting my time. I'm trying to
find a new job. I want to do something I'm
passionate about. Oh, Jay, Like the last few years, I

(40:26):
just waste them being anxious. Now I'm confident. It's like no, no, no, no, no, Like,
you need to remember that because that's how you got here.
And by the way, life is going to give you
those scenarios again, and you're gonna need to remember this
because next time it will be a familiar right, It'll
be like a familiar feeling of Oh, I've been there,
I know how to deal with this.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
That's why when even when you're talking to, you know,
young people in the field, and they'll say things to
you like, well, what if I, you know, leave New
York and go to Atlanta and things don't work in Atlanta?
I'm like okay, Like and like, what do you mean
if things don't work? Because what you're going to realize

(41:05):
later on in life is regardless of what happened when
you were there, it worked. I don't care if you
went down there and you worked there for six months
and got fired. There's going to be something you pick
up in those six months. There's gonna be somebody you
meet in those six months. It might just be a
time of your life that you actually enjoy and you
need that. You might just need to be in a
different environment, you know, for a little while, But there's

(41:27):
gonna be something you pick up within those six months
that's gonna make you realize, like it worked. I think,
you know, we have these extremes when it comes to work.
I could easily look back in my radio career and
be like, I got fired four times, So those were
four times things didn't work. That is a complete lie.
Every single one of those situations I got fired from.
I had the time of my life and I learned

(41:49):
so much from and I met people that are still,
you know, my friends to this day. So I wouldn't
trade any of that for the world. Like for all
I know, how do we know what we're doing now
is working?

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Yeah, we don't.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
This is just what we're doing in the moment. I
know what's working for now. But who's to say this
is what we're going to be doing when we're fifty
years old. Who's to say this is what we're going
to be doing we're sixty, we might be still trying
to hold on to breakfast club and on purpose and
God is like, I need you to move. Yeah, he
might even still let you keep it, but you'll be
sitting here unhappy, depressed, angry, like, oh, why isn't things

(42:28):
moving the way I want him to move? It's because
God asked you to move a long time ago, but
you didn't want to because you're still trying to make
this work and it's not working no more. Just because
something is successful doesn't mean that it's working totally, you know, totally.
That's such a good point. That's such a good point,
and it reminds you. There's this beautiful story that the
Buddha used to tell about person. He's on a journey,

(42:51):
and they're on this journey and they come across an obstacle,
and the first obstacle is this fast flowing river. So
they realize, I need to build a raft. So they
get the bamboo, they get the they tie it up
they build themselves and owe and then they paddle with
all their strength and they get to the other side,
and then they think, this raft saved my life. I'm
going to take it wherever I go. So they strap
it to their back and they carry on walking. And

(43:13):
then the Buddha says that, just like us, this person
gets to another challenge, and the challenge is not a
fast flowing river. This time it's a tall wooded forest
with trees dotted at every other step. So now the
person's trying to walk through and the raft keep getting stuck,
and they're trying to maneuver, and they're trying to get through,
and the raft is getting chipped. The raft is blocking
them from walking through, and the Buddha says, the person

(43:35):
has two choices. They either hold on to the raft
and they struggle to get through, or they put it
down and they walk on freely. And it's the same
thing point that you're making right now, this idea of like,
what are you holding on to that you believe made
you successful, but is actually stopping you from breaking through
the next challenge. And if you keep holding onto it's

(43:55):
just going to hurt your hands, going to hurt your back.
You're never going to walk through. And I agree, success
is probably the greatest prison because the feeling of success
is so intoxicating that you think, I'm just gonna keep
doing this like a drug because it makes me feel good,
but actually I may not be actually feeling healthy well,
feeling like I'm moving in my best self. And I've

(44:18):
seen that even in my career. I remember when I
first died my work. We grew based on videos I
made on Facebook, and today, eight years on, I don't
make those videos anymore.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Facebook is not our core platform anymore. We had to
move on and evolve, and I've seen that time and
time again, whether it's been a YouTube platform or whatever
it is. And I think we get tied to platforms,
we get tied to algorithms, we get tied to patterns,
We get tied to all these things, and then eventually
we become a prisoner of the pattern and get it
become a prison of the algorithm, and letting it go

(44:52):
is hard. And what you're saying right now, like recognizing
that what you're doing right now maybe something you have
to let go of is a healthy he thought.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
Man, I'm living proved.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
I talk about that in the book, you know, getting
on us to die line while small talk sucks shameless plug.
But I talk about that in the book because two
thousand and sixteen, that's why I was at with it.
You know, I'm six years in on the Breakfast Club.
I'm having more success than I ever imagined. I'm making
more money than I ever imagined. Like, you know, I

(45:23):
put out my first book, Black Privilege. It's an instant
New York Times bestseller. Like we moving like things are great,
things are fantastic. But I'm not happy. And the reason
I'm not happy because I'm still dealing with this anxiety.
I'm still dealing with, you know, this depression. And I'm
starting to feel like, you know, I'm becoming a character
sure of myself to a certain extent. And it was

(45:49):
like when I made the decision to start going to
therapy number one. But then you start going to therapy
and you start saying to yourself, like, all right, this
has gotten me to this point, what is going to
get me to that next level of life. I wasn't
thinking about career or anything like that. I said, what's
going to get me to that next level of life?

(46:11):
Because I want to enjoy life. I want to wake
up more happy than depressed. You know, I want to
you know, wake up feeling you know, more secure about
myself than imposter syndrome? Like what's going to get me
to that? And what got me to that was letting
go of just what I felt like people wanted from me.

(46:34):
And that's another reason the comments and stuff was so
dangerous because you can put things out there and immediately
get real time feedback, and you know, this is this
is twenty eighteen, right or twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, you know,
or prior to that, it was two and twenty sixteen.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Things weren't weren't that toxic on social.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Media, so you could kind of get like some real
world criticism and you would see these things that you know,
I guess people like about you, so you would constantly
feed them more of that. Or you got publications saying, oh,
Charlamagne is the hip hop Howard Stern.

Speaker 3 (47:08):
You're like, oh, what does that mean?

Speaker 1 (47:10):
So you start giving them more of the wild, you know,
crazy antics before all. I know, they could have meant
that because of you know, the introspective interviews that that
that that get done on Breakfast Club as well. But
I wasn't seeing that aspect of it. I was just
seeing the raw ride of wildness. And so for me,
just personally and professionally, I just was not happy and

(47:30):
I had to, you know, let that go. So that
was the most freeing thing for me because when I
did that, I experienced way more. I wouldn't be with you,
you know, having the success that I've had if I
hadn't let that raft go. And there was also a
period where, you know, because of this cancel culture era

(47:53):
you live in, you be definitely ashamed to see some
of the stuff that you you know, used to do.
You're not You're not necessarily ashamed of it. You're more
so afraid of, oh, they're gonna use this against me whatever, whatever.
But guess what, you can't care about that.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
And the reason you can't care about that because if
you really have faith in the Higher Power, if you
really trust, you know, God to God, you have to
know that every single moment that you were in you
were the person you needed to be for that moment,
because it's just the journey and it's a process and
eventually you become who you're supposed to be. And even

(48:29):
the version you're looking at me right now, not the
final form of myself. I don't know what that's gonna be.
Nobody does, but I know that I'm on the journey
and I'm gonna keep walking.

Speaker 4 (48:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
One thing I wanted to pick your brain about was
this idea you kind of alluded to it there. It's this,
We have this rhetoric on social media which is like,
we want people to be more empathetic and compassionate and kind.
We want people to when they share their vulnerable mental
health journey that we all gotta listen and be attentive.
But then when sometimes we see someone with a mental

(49:01):
health challenge make them act different, we're the first ones
to point out that they're an idiot, they're a loser,
there's something wrong with them. There's I'll give an example
of what I mean by this. Like Tom Holland talked
about this when he came on the show. He was
talking about how, you know, he's always been seeing as
Spider Man and this cool kid and all the rest
of it. And then when he started talking about his
mental health or actually know, when he just announced that

(49:23):
he'd given up alcohol and he was sober, all the
news was like he was saying this he was saying.
All the news was like, oh, Tom Holland, the happy,
go lucky kid wasn't actually he was depressed. And it
was like and they made it a whole thing, and
he was like, no, I just gave up alcohol. I
wasn't like an alcoholic. I just didn't want to drink anymore.
And so all of a sudden it was like twisted
the other way where it was like, oh, the kid

(49:43):
that you think is happy, isn't he's depressed, or the
kid that he's got mental health or whatever it may be.
And it wasn't in the kind of compassionate way. It
was more like a well, look, you didn't see this.
So I find it like the way we react to
certain things. It's almost like we're being hypocrites in and
of because at one point we're saying we should care
for people to have this, but then we're willing to

(50:04):
point it out. How have you kind of seen that
navigate when you see the worst forms of what mental
health can do to people versus someone maybe not displaying
the worst mental illness externally, but it's just talking about it.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (50:18):
I don't know how anybody can diagnose someone just by
watching them.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Through the media. Like you know, if that's the case,
we're all dealing with mental health issues. People just shitty people.
And that's the other thing. And by the way we
say two things can be true, no, multiple things can
be true at one time.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Like you use the example of Tom Holland, why can't
he be the happy gold lucky kid who said he's
not But that's the only version of him you had
in your mind. So now when you see another version
that doesn't fit your expectation, you're upset with him.

Speaker 3 (50:53):
The happy gold lucky kid is not so happy anymore.
That's life. You show me a human that's one emotion
all the time.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
It's just that when you're a public figure, we get
these it's like these these freeze frames. So Tom Holland happy,
du you know this person crazy, Like it's just free
like literally freeze for this person, always mad, angry for you.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
It's these freeze.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
Frames of people that's not the whole totality of a person.
Like that's actually kind of insane for us to even
think about it like that. It's like like like like
even if you watch Jay Shaddy on purpose, you have
a thought, a perception of Jay Shaddy in your head.
You got a perception of charlamage in your head based
off something you may have seen.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
That's your fault. That's the one thing you saw, and
you came.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
To a whole diagnosis about an individual. So you know,
even when you talk about people having empathy, that goes
into what I'm saying now. We might want to every all, everybody,
all of these humans might wake up every day saying
to themselves, we're gonna be empathetic today and we're gonna

(51:59):
be caring and all of that stuff until something happens
to somebody that you don't like, and then that all
that goes out the window. I tend to see that
people have more empathy and sympathy, and they're more caring
towards people they actually like. It's really a popularity contest,
but nobody wants to admit that we're not looking at
we're not being consistent about any of these things, and

(52:21):
we're not being consistent with how we deal with people.
There can be two people that come out in the
news today with the same situation, and based off if
we like the individual or not, we'll give that person
a whole lot of grace and come to that person's defense.
But if it's somebody that we don't like, or somebody's
social media tells us we shouldn't like, Oh, we're going
to bury them. We want them out of here, we

(52:42):
want them gone. That's not consistent. And that means you're
lying to yourself. And that means that you're not the
person you say that you are, because you should be
giving both those individuals the same amount of grace.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
But you not. Because we're all hypocrites. And that's fine.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
We're everything, like everything that we pin on other people,
we are all those things and more. We just got
to make sure that we're not projecting.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Wow, that's powerful man, Yeah, that's and it's true. All
of us are right. We all have bias. We all
have the natural human tendency to be empathetic to people
we like, and and we're all that way, and but
we've got to be able to see that, because if
we can see that, then it's something that we can,
Like you said, we don't project. Otherwise we live in
our tiny we were talking about this earlier, like we

(53:32):
live in this righteous mind, as Jonathan Hyde calls it,
like this idea of like my way is righteous and
I believe the way I live and the way I
think is the only way and the right way. And
that's where it goes wrong, because the truth is, if
everyone thinks like that, now you've just got a you know,
eight billion righteous ways.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
We even have to watch how we express that language, right,
because we all do it. We'll say things like, man,
the way you're seeing that is strange? Are the way
that I can't believe you're seeing things that way?

Speaker 3 (54:03):
Why? Because they're not seeing it the way you are.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
There's probably nothing wrong with the way that individual is
seeing it, But because you think they should see it
the way you are seeing it, you're upset with that person.
Are you might have had the expectation, I know I
can call this person because we love we love confirmation
by this right, So I know that I can call
this person because this person is going to agree with me.

(54:28):
And then when you pick up the phone and call
that person or text that person and realize that person
has a different opinion. Now you're arguing back and forth
with that person, trying to get them to see things
the way you see things. It's like, no, let them
see it the way they want to see it. Like
one of the hardest things to do is to get
is to step into somebody else's shoes. One of the
hardest things to do is to see things from the

(54:48):
perspective of other people. I literally fight myself to do that,
and some people might say, oh, he's being a contrarian. No,
I'm just literally I've literally taken the time to step
out of myself Steven of that person shoes, see how.

Speaker 3 (55:03):
They see it, and I can understand where they're coming from.
What's wrong with that?

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Yeah, I don't see any I don't see anything wrong
with that. And I'm not saying that person is right,
that person's wrong. I'm just simply saying I can see
where that person's coming from. Like I said, multiple things
can be true at once. I can think a person's
wrong and still see where they're coming from. I can
think a person's right but still see where they're wrong
at in their argument as well.

Speaker 3 (55:28):
I think that's very hard for humans to do, and
I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean talking about calls you talking
about in the book, the calls that you get from
Kanye Yeah, and that call, like will cuts through how
that applies to what you're saying here where you're trying
to see things through his perspective. But then year old
select but I know Pete and were friends.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
Yeah, his perspective was I'm black, he's black. We both
from hip hop culture. He's from hip hop culture. Pete
Davidson is this white kid from Staten Island who does comedy.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
He's younger than us because we are wearing our forties.
He's younger than us.

Speaker 1 (56:00):
You know, his.

Speaker 3 (56:02):
Ex wife is now out here Dayton Pete.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
I'm gonna call Charla Magne because I need Charlemagne to start,
you know, siding with me against Pete Davidson.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
And he should because.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
He's black and I'm the cultures as Kanye says, and
it's like, no, Pete Davison is my friend. I can
care if he's black. I can care if he's white.
I care what race is. I don't care what age
he is. That's somebody that I met when he was
sixteen years old, when we was all doing you know,
guy cold together, and we developed a real friendship and
a real bond. I know his mother, like, I mean,

(56:34):
me and his mom talk. We check on each other.
I've been in his mom's house. You don't sit in
somebody's mom's house and eat food with eat food with them,
and call that person a friend and then turn around
and do snake shit like that. Pete's been to my house,
He's been around my kids, he's been around my wife.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
I know him.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
You're not going to call me and get me to
turn on my friend and try to, you know, say,
because we're black and we're of the coaches.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
It's like, no right is right, wrong is wrong.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
And as I told him, you know, and I had
to quote Snoop Dogg from the nineteen nineties, you mad,
don't be mad at the don't be mad at the player.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Hate the game because your girl chose him. You know,
I didn't say girl. I used some other language. I
use the languge Snoop used.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
But your girl chose him, and she's a grown woman
making her own decisions. Y'all not together, No more so
for me, it's like, you're not gonna call me and
try to guilt trip me, you know, using using blackness
and hip hop to go against somebody I consider a friend.
Because if I considered you a friend like that, Kanye,
nobody could make me do that to you as well,

(57:40):
you know, So it's really that simple with me. I
don't have you know, I don't have flexible morals and
values when it comes to people that I love and
when it comes to people that I consider actual friends
and consider actual family. That's why, you know, betrayal hurts
so much. That's why when you realize that, you know,

(58:01):
certain people's character gets revealed when they don't get what
they want from you, Like that's something. That's another realization
that I've been, you know, having a lot lately. It's
just like, I don't know that person wasn't necessarily my
friend like I thought they were. They were my friend
based on what opportunity was being provided. Yes at the time, yes, right,

(58:21):
And so it's like it's sad, but you do realize
some of that stuff is transactional. That's why I say
I'm not mad at being used. Just don't just don't
misuse me. And when things don't go your way, don't
all of a sudden start you know, kicking my back
end just because things don't go your way, because I'm
not going to do that to you other than you know,

(58:43):
I'm lying I would do that to you, meaning that
when I'm around my people, I'm definitely gonna be like
that person is so fucked up, that person is such
a like I cannot believe that that individual did such
and such. But guess what, I can't believe it because
I understand humans.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
So I give that.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
I give all of those type of you know, human
is grace, but you know it does. It's it's very
disappointing when you're more solid to a person than they
would be with you. Because if I embrace you and
I say you my friend, if I say I rock
with you, I'm I'm I'm we're gonna ride to the
wheels fall off.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
Yeah, yeah, totally. And I find it's an interesting one
because it's like it's it's almost like also it's it's
only the people. The only people that attacked you are
the people who you know wanted to do something with
you but it didn't happen. Yes, right, what you're saying
about changing morals, Like, I find like people attack you
and they're like, oh, I want to do a podcast
with you, but you didn't want to make it happen,
so now I'm going to find a way to attack you.

(59:35):
It didn't work out, And it's interesting because you go, oh, well,
then it wasn't ever a collaboration, and it wasn't of
high character. It was an opportunity. Now that the opportunity
is lost, now you have a different view of this situation.
And and I love that point you made about how
that's why I think opportunities going well or not going
well shows how someone responds to it absolutely right, Like

(59:58):
when there's a yes or a no. Someone who actually
responds well to a no and a healthy know again
obviously in a way that is communicated effectively. Someone who
responds in a positive way to a rejection or a
no or a closed door, that person you should keep
them around forever.

Speaker 3 (01:00:17):
Yo, man, Jay, you hitting it on the head so crazy. Pause.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
It's like, do you remember, like, you know, you ever
met somebody who's so talented and you say to yourself,
why isn't this person here?

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
Like why isn't this person doing X, Y and Z
Because they're so talented.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
And then when you start to like get in business
with them and you go down the path with them
and you start to you know, be around them, you realize, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
Yeah, they haven't gotten nowhere they need to be.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Because once again, my good friend Marvette Brittle always says,
this talent will take you what character can't sustain you.
So you start to see like this person is not
really a hard work or this person really is a gossip,
like this person just likes to talk about everybody else
instead of focusing on what they should be focusing on.
They're so worried about what everybody else is doing and

(01:01:11):
trying to shoot down what everybody else is doing. And
you're trying to tell them, like, don't worry about that,
because you know, listen, sometimes jealousy and envy it's natural, right,
but don't focus on what's going right for everybody else
because you don't know what's going on in their lives.
They might be looking like on the surface, like they're
winning and things are great, but they might be going
home crying every night, Like, don't worry about that. You

(01:01:32):
focus on you, but you see that they can't do that.
And when things don't go their way, Oh, they become
the most they become the worst people. Everybody's the enemy,
everybody's a terrible person. All of these people are out
to get me. Nobody's looking out for me, And you realize,
like that's exactly why you're not where you're supposed to be.
I've had so many doors closed on me. I've heard

(01:01:54):
so I've gotten way more knows you know than Yes,
it's in my life.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
I never was bitter about.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Any of those nose because I truly believe in God
and so whatever God has for me will absolutely positively
be for me.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
We love saying that, but we don't mean it. You
don't mean it. That's when things don't go right for you.
Guess what you say? Why? God?

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Why is this thing not happening for me? Because I
don't want it to at the moment? Do you trust
me or not? If you don't trust me, I'll be
sitting here waiting until you do. And guess what if
you never do, God bless literally exactly straight up, God
will be sitting right there. I can bless you at
any moment, but I didn't til you ready. You don't

(01:02:37):
trust me anyway, So until you find that trust in me,
good good luck.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Yeah, I respect you for that in this I mean
you're always like this off online and offline, but in
the book, I really feel like you get honest with us.
But you're about your own pain and trauma, but you
also to get honest with us about just you know,
you're just right now, you're just spitting facts like it's
just reality. It's just the way it is. And I
think one of the things you talk about is this
desire to like you want to also make a joke

(01:03:04):
when you can, Like you want to make it funny.
You want to be able to let it, you know,
let it kind of live in that world. When have
you found it that it works? And when have you
found that that doesn't work, Like when you're trying to
make something into being funny or silly or kind of
lightning the movie? When have you seen that be effective
and ineffective? Probably quite often like way ineffective. I mean,

(01:03:25):
I think it works both ways both times, right because
because because like say you do it, if you're in
a room full of people, somebody's gonna laugh. But then
the person you might be trying to make a laugh
does not want to laugh in that moment, so they're
the one that's upset.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Now you're really in your head like just trying to
make this person laugh. I was just trying to do
something good. So now you really like trying to get
this person to just have you know, you're trying to
put better energy on this person. Reality is should just
leave that person alone in that moment. Everything does not
require a joke. I have not learned that may not ever.

(01:04:00):
I may not ever, you know, learn that I really
may not. Like I just feel like I like to
be around people who don't take things too serious, even
when things are serious, because I don't feel like you can,
you know, make really good sound decisions when things are
too serious because emotions are too high. Like sometimes you
gotta like, let's laugh about it, let's joke about it,

(01:04:21):
let's really really really light in the room, and then
let's like sit down and try to like figure it out.
Like if you are sitting around a whole bunch of
people and everybody's angry and everybody's upset, everybody's mad, you
just got a team that's about to make a poor decision. Wow,
somebody on the team got to just be like, whoa yo,
everybody relax here. Somebody got to be the rational one

(01:04:45):
in the room. And most of the time, the rational
one in the room is the person that's not they're
taking it serious, but they're just not taking it serious
in the way that you want to take it serious.
Cause I'm the type person I'm like, what can I do,
Like there's certain situations that you hear about, certain situations
you are confronted with in the moment and you realize, like,
there's really nothing we can do about this except for

(01:05:07):
let it play out. So while we're letting it play out,
let's let's laugh, you know what I'm saying. Let's let's
crack some jokes. You ever seen that movie? Uh, don't
look up?

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
Yeah of course, ye, yeah, yeah, exactly how they.

Speaker 3 (01:05:22):
Handled the End of the World.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
That's how like I'm talking about Leonard of the character
when they were all at dinner, they were still pouring
drinks and they were eating. They knew the inevitable was happening.
They knew there was nothing they could do to stop it.
They spent the whole beginning of the movie trying to
stop it, and they accepted fate in that moment, and

(01:05:44):
they decided, I'm going out like this because they knew
there was nothing they could do about it. And I
know that that's a movie and it it's probably easier
said than done, but that's what I that's what I
described for, Like, even in the face of adversity, even
when it seems like you know, chicking little the sky
is falling, everything's.

Speaker 3 (01:06:04):
Burning down around you. You're like exhibiting that video.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
He's just walking and everything's burning down and all this
bad stuff is happening behind him, but he's just rapping
and moving, rapping and moving.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
It's just like, Yo, that's how I feel like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
I want to, you know, constantly live my life and
that's the kind of people I want to you know,
be around people that keep me in that space.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Yeah, for sure. Last question I ask you, Shelaman before
we wrap up, is and it's interesting because it relates
to where you just said, if you want to be
around this people, how do we find belonging in a
world we don't agree with, but stop ourselves from only
being friends with people we agree with? Right? It's like,
because right now we look at belonging, It's like, if
we agree, then I find belonging. But we both know

(01:06:48):
from what you're saying in the book, from what you're
saying right now, from what you say on your podcast,
from what you say on your show, is like, but
you are very comfortable sitting down having uncomfortable, awkward conversations
with people who people wouldn't place you with.

Speaker 3 (01:07:01):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
From completely different backgrounds, different walks of life, different schools
of thought, and you find that to be a very
important thing to do. Absolutely, So, how do we find
belonging in a way that we're not just creating little
echo chambers and little confirmation biased schools where we just
all just say what we think and we all double
click on and go yeah, yeah, that thing, that thing.
How do we create a culture where which you're doing

(01:07:24):
through your work, through your book, how do you actually
do that in your life? Because I think we like
to be around people who agree with us.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
I don't even know if you realize it, but as
you was talking, you refer to you refer to that
stuff as little Yeah, and that's exactly what it is.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
It's small.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
That's why it's literally called why small talk sucks you.
Macro conversations are big conversations that you can have with anybody.
Like when you put yourself in those small boxes, right
when you confine yourself to.

Speaker 3 (01:07:53):
Just speaking with the people that you agree with, when.

Speaker 1 (01:07:57):
You confine yourself to just being in those echo chambers,
those rooms are so small they just seem big because
of social media.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
But that's not how the world works.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
Yo, There's really there's really not too many people that
are going to see the world exactly the way you
see it, So that can't be true. All of y'all
are aligned to each other because y'all just love the
community of each other. Y'all are really a bunch of
people who need, you know, support from each other. And
y'all want to have a friend group just like all

(01:08:28):
humans do. So y'all are all just going along to
get along with each other. So y'all make this imaginary
role book, this imaginary playbook, and y'all have this imaginary
rhetoric that everybody has to say. And if you don't
see things like this, if you don't say things like this,
then you can't be in this club no more. This
club is this big, like that club is so so

(01:08:49):
so so small. So in order to just like understand
that you live in a world that you are going
to disagree with people, Like I said earlier, I can
think you're right, but still not necessarily agree with you.
I can understand where you're coming from, but still think
you're wrong. Like I don't understand why we just can't

(01:09:12):
sit down and have more conversations with people and then
realize this surface that I saw this individual or this
perception of this individual that I had in my head.
If you sit down and actually have a conversation with
them and listen to the whole totality of everything that
they may be saying or experience, you'll never be able
to experience the whole totality of a person, but you'll

(01:09:34):
get closer to what you thought. If you just sit
down and have a conversation with them, you'll realize, like, Oh,
what they're saying isn't necessarily that bad, or oh, I
understand why they see things that way. I disagree with them,
but I understand it and I respect they're right to
think that. We spend so much time trying to change
people's minds because we're trying to make ourselves comfortable. We

(01:09:58):
talk about all of this growth that we want to
have as humans, and we talk about how, you know,
and we like being uncomfortable because when we're uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (01:10:07):
It's making us grow. We know that we're evolving.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
We really don't like growing, and we really don't like
being uncomfortable. We get to a certain point, and we
all need to admit this. We get to a certain
point where we're very comfortable and we don't want anything
disrupting this comfort so to have new conversations and to
talk to people that we may not necessarily agree with.
Oh man, that scares us to death. That scares us

(01:10:32):
to death. But I would say you should be more
afraid of not growing. You should be more afraid of
thinking that I've gotten to a certain point and I'm
fine and cool here. The world is a beautiful place, Jay,
Humans are beautiful people, Like, why would you not want
to experience everything that God created? Because a lot of

(01:10:57):
these things that we've learned necessarily of God. It's just
the things that we've picked up in this world. Some
people have picked up things that are different from us.
But sometimes when you sit down and you listen to
that person and that person shares their experiences, or that
person you know, tells you what they've been through that's
gotten them to that you know point in life, it

(01:11:18):
can be eye opening. And it's been very eye opening
for me throughout my life. Like my best relationships in
life have come through me having conversations with people that
I necessarily that I that I didn't have anything in
common with. One of the greatest, you know, gifts my
mother ever gave me.

Speaker 3 (01:11:34):
She don't see she was.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
An English teacher growing up in South Carolina. Like when
I was going up in South Carolina, and she told
me read things that don't pertain to you. So I'm
in the library, I'm reading everything from UFOs, you know,
Sasquash to Judy Bloom and Beverly clearly to the point
where I'm like, this woman, Judy Bloom is a phenomenal storyteller.
So I love Judy Bloom the same way I love Scarface,

(01:11:57):
the same way I love jay Z, the same way
I love ghost Face. She's that love storytelling to me.
And now because of that love of somebody like Judy
Bloom and me expressing that she's somebody I actually call
a friend, she's actually somebody that I, you know, have
gone down the floorida, you know, kicked it with her
and her husband, George, me and my wife, Like I've
been to her bookstore, in her movie theater, like we

(01:12:18):
were just in together in New York a couple of
weeks ago. Like that that comes from being open to
other people, other experiences and just listening to each other.
And that's really what you know, get at us. A
die line, while small talk sucks, is really all about
It's really about us, you know, getting to listen to
each other. That's why I end every chapter by saying,

(01:12:39):
let's discuss, because I want us to have conversations.

Speaker 3 (01:12:44):
I'm opening up conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:12:46):
I don't want you just to talk to the people
that you agree with every day, tear down the walls
of that echo chain. Being realized how big the world is.
The world is infinite. That's what I want people to get.
You know, you know from this from this book.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
Yeah, just the way you reacted to that, I could
know how deep the topic is for you. It took
me a second, but when you said O the way
I said it was little, and then you were like, oh,
it's actually small talk, like it applies. That showed me
just how deep this is running for your veins because
you picked up on that. It's like, yeah, I was saying, Yeah,
these little groups and these little echo chambers and these
little kind of like you know, text threads or message threads,

(01:13:19):
whatever we have done, which is important, just get smaller
and smaller and smaller. What's last question, what's the hardest,
hardest conversation you've had to have to do a kid
so far? So far or the most honest conversation. That's say,
not hardest, the most honest conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:13:32):
Oh man, that's listen.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
I got a fifteen year old, an eight year old,
a five year old, and a two year old, all girls,
so I.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
Haven't had it yet. They're all hard.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
I think they're all difficult, Okay, every single one, especially
you know, my fifteen year old because she's a sophomore
in high school now, and you know, they're dealing with
things that we never even thought of dealing with, like literally,
like you know, and we're dealing with adults that we
never thought of dealing with. And these kids are smart,

(01:14:06):
Like you know, I remember during COVID, my daughter came
to me and she came to me and my wife
and she was like she was in tears, and she
was just like, ya, I'm overwhelmed, Like I'm overwhelmed, Like
this is driving me crazy. You know, my grades is slipping.
I'm like, I gave her a hug. I'm like, we
are in an unprecedented time right now, Like we're literally

(01:14:28):
at home. I'm at home doing work. You're doing pottery
class on the kitchen floor. Do you think I give
a damn if your grades slip? At a moment like this, like,
I don't care about any of that, But what made
me proud in that moment was she had the language
because you know, she's she's she's been the therapy. Not
because anything's necessarily wrong. I'm just I'm just realizing that

(01:14:51):
we're in an unprecedented time. Like they these kids deal
with things that we don't have to deal with. So
I want them. I want her to have the tools
and the language early because I'm just the person still
going through it myself. Her mom is a person still
going through it herselves. So I want her to sit
down and you know, talk to experts. So but just
the fact she had the language. So when you say

(01:15:11):
difficult conversations, honestly, the difficult conversations come from.

Speaker 3 (01:15:17):
Me having to check my ego as a parent because
I'm forty.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
Five and I believe this little fifteen year old doesn't
know anything yet she knows a whole lot and she can.
She's teaching me, you know, a whole lot. Like there's
some things that change, there's some things that stay the
same in this world, but there's a whole lot that
has changed. And I think that you know, we we
we sometimes are too stubborn to realize that. And so, yeah,

(01:15:46):
I guess they answer your question. Every day is a
difficult conversation. She got four girls. Every day is a
difficult conversation. Like, I'm dealing with a different set of
emotions every single day. The biggest thing for me is
to stay centered, insane, and you know, not let my emotions.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
Get the best of me.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Like, that's one of the biggest conversations me and my
wife constantly have, Like we get together in our little
prayer circles and huddle together like we are doing the
best we can.

Speaker 3 (01:16:14):
I literally touch so funny I told you this yesterday.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
I was like, yo, you know, we've been together twenty
six years and we've experienced so many different levels of
life together. And so what I said to her, I
was like, yo, the other we also realized, twenty six
years go by fast. So regardless of how scretched out
we get because of these children, let's enjoy the moment.

(01:16:40):
Like literally, let's just enjoy the moment. We are doing
the best we can. There is no manual that comes
with this. You don't want to take everything you learn
from your parents because you realize they didn't have all
of the proper tools, and they didn't necessarily, you know,
instill the right things in us, at least from a
man's perspective. My mom, I felt was phenomenal, at least
from a mass perspective. You know, I didn't have that.

(01:17:03):
So we're just all doing the best we can. So
let's just give each other some grace. Man and like
and enjoyed his ride called Adulthood.

Speaker 2 (01:17:12):
Absolutely every one the book, it's called Get Honest or Dieline.
You can get it right now. Why small talk sucks?
Sell them and the God this is the book that
I want you to get. Discuss it with your friends
that sect it, allow it to infuse into reality. I've
been really really happy that his books out because I
spent last Christmas in London, which is what I usually do,

(01:17:34):
and I started to find that even friends I've had
for a couple of decades, I found that we were
becoming less and less honest with each other, and I
was feeling really disconnected. When I was back at Christmas
and I was trying to figure out what it was,
I was like, wait, a minute, is it because I
left eight years ago and I've been living in the States.
Is it because of this? Is this, and I realized
it was honesty, and so I started to create conversations

(01:17:59):
in my friends grew that were uncomfortable. And when I
saw that you'd written this book, I was so moved
by it because I was like, that was the exact
issue that I felt I was moving further away from
the people I was closest to because we were all
now just playing a role, and everyone's playing their part.
But there was no longer a get honest conversation. It
was all small talk. And so I really hope that

(01:18:21):
this conversation inspires people to get closer to the people
you already think you're close to, right, and understand the
people that you're far away from.

Speaker 3 (01:18:29):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
And so the book is called get Honest or Die Lying,
Why small talk sucks? Right, can grab it right now.
We'll put it in the comments and the link in
the caption. Charlamagne, thank you so much again, man. As always,
I appreciate these conversations.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
I appreciate you time.

Speaker 4 (01:18:42):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
We always have macro conversations on air off air, and
I mean, just what you've built with this platform on purpose,
it is so necessary, man, Like you know, everybody's having
these conversations about mindfulness and you know, wellness, and we're
all just trying to be the best versions of ourselves.
Something like this didn't exist five years ago, Like those
conversations that people are having now weren't necessarily as loud

(01:19:04):
as they were, you know, as loud five years ago
as they are now. And your platform on purpose is
a big, big, big, huge part of that. So thank
you for your service, brother, Thank you. I appreciate you, absolutely,
thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
If this is the year that you're trying to get creative,
you're trying to build more, I need you to listen
to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break
into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods
that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving
what you do. If you're trying to find your passion
and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.

Speaker 4 (01:19:40):
Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value,
Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all
of the value. That's the success comes when you say
I like this enough for other people to see it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
For Mental Health Awareness Month, I'm partnering up with the
National Alliance of Mental Illness Know Me.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
If you were so.

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
Some one you know is struggling with mental health, there
is help. Call Namie Helpline at eight hundred nine fifty NAMI,
or go to www. Dot name dot org, forward slash help,
or text Helpline to six two six four zero for
immediate twenty four to seven crisis support. Call your text
nine eight eight or visit www. Dot nine eight eight

(01:20:23):
lifeline dot org

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}How to Know if You've Been Lying to Yourself & Learn to Get Comfortable Being Honest With Yourself and Others with Charlamange Tha God