Rob Dial: How to Break the Cycle of Procrastination & 3 Ways to Change Your Repeated Thoughts

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
There's a lot of talk about mindfulness these days, which
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(00:43):
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Speaker 2 (01:00):
I think if people are like I want to accomplish
this goal, the very next question is why, and then
go why why? Why? Why?

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Why?

Speaker 2 (01:07):
If your why is so strong, how it's going to
be done. It doesn't matter who You'll figure out. You've
got a book out called Level Up rub Dial from
the Mindsetmental Podcast. Not everything that's happened to you in
your life is your fault, but whatever it is that
you have, it is your responsibility to work through. If
I'm going to feel the feelings of fear, why don't
I also just try feeling the feelings of success in
getting there?

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Hey everyone, I've got some huge news to share with you.
In the last ninety days, seventy nine point four percent
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(01:52):
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Speaker 3 (02:04):
Subscribe right now the number one health and wellness podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Jay Shetty, Jay Shetty, sly Ja shet Hey, everyone, welcome
back to On Purpose. I am so glad that you
decided to tune in to listen, learn and grow. Today's
guest is a long time friend. When we tell you
about how we met and how long ago it was,
you'll get to hear this story in a few moments.

(02:29):
But I'm really excited because this is his first time
on the show. We're finally making it happen. His name
is Rob Dile, the host of the hugely popular podcast,
The Mindset Mentor podcast. Rob simplifies neurology, psychology, and cognitive
behavioral therapy to help people grasp how their brains and
bodies function together. Rob's podcast is one of his biggest projects.

(02:52):
If you're not subscribe yet, check it out. And Rob's
also the author of Level Up. The book is out
right now and it guides people to take action, overcome procrastination,
and form lasting habits. Rob believes that when you master
your mindset, you master your life. If you don't have
this book already, go and order it now. Level Up
by Rob Dow Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
Rob.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Dude.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
I can't believe it's taken us this long. I know,
but we're doing it. Hey, I love it and I
don't come to Austin enough. So we haven't done that yet.
I was saying to everyone, Yeah, we've we met seven
years ago. We were just talking about it in New York,
and I think we were both just starting out trying
to figure it out, making content, figuring it out. And
we'd connected because I think we had a similar set

(03:36):
of like values and beliefs around the kind of mindset,
and you were always really curious about Eastern spirituality, and
I felt like we just had great conversations. We went
on a couple of walks, hung out, and I was
just we were just saying this offline. It was you
who actually said to me back in twenty seventeen. You
were like, dude, you should start a podcast. And I
was like, I don't know if I have time, I

(03:57):
don't know if I'm able to do. I don't know
what it would be if you know, And you were like,
I remember you literally saying that you should just record
yourself walking around, like just whatever.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
You really have so.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
Much wisdom, there's just it needs to people need to
hear it.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
No, But I'm grateful, man, for all those conversations and
all the conversations in between.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
And yeah, man, I.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
Remember when we were talking about this as well. It's beautiful.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, I at that book. Actually you helped me with that,
Whereas like I felt like in twenty twenty, I never
wanted to write a book, and then in twenty twenty,
I was like, man, I'm kind of thinking about it.
And I talked with with one of my friends who
had written a book, and then I was like, I'm
gonna hit up Jay and see what he thinks. And
so I called you up and I was like, hey, man,
like should I go traditional? Should I go like self published?

(04:38):
And you're like, well, traditional is good. You told me
the reasons why. And it was like I always say,
like in life, you never see the entire path, but
you can look like in the headlights where it's like
if you drive at night, on see the entire path
to where you're going, but you can see the next
hundred feet in front of you. And like, the first
one hundred feet was calling my friend and I was like, hey,
you have a successful book, what should I do? And
then the next hundred feet was calling you up and
You're like, yeah, you should do this. And so then

(05:00):
I talked to an agent, well a little bit further on,
and it took three years, but it eventually came out,
but you were a part of it as well.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
Man, I love it.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
It took you thirty seconds to start dropping hacks, habits,
and tools.

Speaker 2 (05:09):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (05:09):
And that's I know the.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Audience is going to love this conversation because I know
you all love mindset, I know you all love habits,
I know you love tools. This book is packed with them,
and today we're going to extract it all out of Rob. So, Rob,
I want to dive straight in because I think there's
so many things we can talk about, and I love
that this book has so much to do with focus
and we. I feel like that's a topic that's really important.
We haven't had many guests that have shed a lot

(05:31):
of light on it, so this is perfect. Talk to
me about why, because I know you love the neuroscience.
Why is it that we all want something? We have goals,
we have things that we believe are important, but we
struggle to focus on them.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah. Well, there's a couple different things. I think. The
first thing is that we hold ourselves back from is
we have a lot of fears and fears when you
really start to dive into them, like you mentioned in
the beginning of this started talking with you about like
the East, and you started I remember you told me
in twenty seventeen like you should read the bogg of Ikita.
So I literally wrote it. I got it like the
next week and read it while we were traveling, and

(06:10):
so there was that, And as I was writing the book,
I was like, what's the thing because the original tide
of the book was the psychology of taking action? Because
I was looking at the mindset mentor podcasts. I have
fourteen hundred episodes and I was like, it's just me
speaking for almost every single one of them. And I
was like, what do I teach? Like what do what
do people want for me? And I was like, it's
almost all like tips and tricks understand yourself to take

(06:30):
action because everybody who's listening to a podcast has the
awareness of I want to improve, I want to get better,
I want something different, but how do I do it?
And so I started saying, Okay, if taking action is
what the book's going to be about, like why don't
people take action in the first place? And one of
the things that pops up for people is fear, like
they're just there's some sort of fear that pops up
for them and I had a conversation with one of

(06:50):
my friends who went and lived in the tribe with
a tribe, a native Brazilian tribe in the middle of Brazil,
and so he had to fly into a town, he
had to hop on a boat and go for two
days on at in the middle of nowhere. And he
started talking to me about these things that he called
primal fears and intellectual fears. So, like a primal fear
is pain or death is attached to it, and we
don't really come up with too many primal fears in
our life nowadays. Intellectual fear is like what we deal

(07:14):
with all day long, which is, you know, the fear
of rejection, the fear of failure, the fear of not
being accepted, the fear of success. We all these fears,
and all of these fears are made up in our minds.
And so I was listening to I'm pretty sure it
was sad Guru I was listening to, and I was like,
I put on and I was driving around in Sedona
as I was writing the book. I was there just

(07:34):
to try to get my whole mind together, is by
myself writing it. And I was like looking at fears
and trying to figure them out. And one thing that
he said that like really hit me more than anything else,
is Okay, I've identified my fears, and the next thing is, well,
how do I overcome these fears? And if it's an
intellectual fear, the fears that exists in our minds is
you can't overcome something that doesn't exist. And so we

(07:57):
create we basically wake up with in the book we
wake up in the morning, we create the Boogeyman, which
is like the fear of success, the fear fairy, whatever
it is. And instead of actually taking the action that
we need to and focusing on what it is that
we want, we take all of our focus and put
it towards trying to overcome this fear, when in reality,
the fear doesn't even exist in the first place. And
so I think the biggest thing for most people is
like the fear is keeping you from focusing. But there's

(08:19):
also like the identity of who you think you are.
And one of my favorite things is challenging who I
think I am all the time. Like I love the
story and I put in the Book of Jim Carrey
when he decided to be and man on the moon
and the Man on the Moon was a movie where
he ended up playing Andy Kaufman, and there was a

(08:40):
whole documentary that was done on this and they curbed
it for like twenty years because it was so off
the rails of how crazy he went and what he
did was he It's a documentary called Jim and Andy
that's on him playing the role on Man on the Moon.
So Andy Kaufman was a guy who was once alive.
And the crazy part of any about Andy Kaufman is
he also played other characters. So it was Jim Carrey
playing Andy Kaufman, who played like Tony Clifton and other characters.

(09:04):
But the thing that happened with him was that he
would never break character, so he was a method actor.
So for four months he played as this real life person,
and even to the point where his driver that would
pick him up in Hollywood and drive him to his
house said that whoever he was playing at the time
that they stopped recording, whether it was Andy Kaufman, Tony Clifton,
he would play that person the entire day when he

(09:26):
was driving him home that night and he picked him
up and he was still the same person, not Jim
Carrey anymore. And so what happened was he he ended
up like and it gets kind of crazy where he
ends up doing therapy sessions with Andy Kaufman's real daughter
and his family to help them overcome his sudden death.
And so what happens is they stopped recording four months later,

(09:47):
and he's like, I don't know who I am and
he lost who he was, and he's like, I don't
know my beliefs. I don't know what makes me happy, well,
what makes me sad, what pisses me off anymore. He's like,
I've kind of just lost who Jim Carrey is. It's
kind of like his spiritual awakening that you've seen him
go through over the past twenty years. And he realized,
if I can lose Jim Carrey, then who the hell
is Jim Carrey? And he realized that Jim Carrey is

(10:09):
just basically a character that he's playing all the time
that is completely somebody else, and he could just wake
up another morning and act like he's somebody else. And
so I think that two of the things that really
keep us from focusing on stuff is we get really
afraid and fearful of making change or judgment or failure
and all that, and the other thing is like, who
we actually truly think we are will hold us back
from tiking either the action that we need to or

(10:31):
you know, staying in the exact same position that we're in.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
I want to go down both of those routes because
I find them both fascinating for different reasons. And I
want to go down that more spiritual ethereal journey as
well too, because yeah, but before we do that, I
want to make sure that so if we talk about
the fears that people are experiencing, as you said, a
lot of the time, it's an intellectual fear.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
It's not real, but.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
It feels so real, feels really right, Like when someone
says like, oh, I'm really scared about what if I
get rejected from the job, or I'm really scared that
my partner is going to leave me, or I'm really
scared that I don't feel good enough or smart enough
to make it in whatever field it is, those feel

(11:13):
extremely real. How do you process a feeling that feels
real even though it may be intellect.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
You yeah, well, so that's the beautiful thing about being
a human. And I think it's and you can correct
me if I'm wrong, but I think it's actually in
the Bagavakisi. It gives an example of a lion attacking
you or tiger attacking you at night. And you know,
one of the examples I give in the book is
similar that, where it's like, if you think about it,
if you we've all had this. We have a really
intense dream, like you're walking in a forest whatever it is,

(11:41):
and you see a lion. It starts running after you. You know,
you run from it. You turn, you look over, your
shoulder's getting closer. You're still running from it. You turn
and look over your shoulder just as teeth are about
to dig into you. And you wake up in the
middle of the night and your body didn't move at all,
but you're sweating, you're out of breath, your heart rate
is in tensely going. And the amazing thing about being

(12:02):
a human, you know they usually say in any case,
is what your biggest strength is is also can be
your biggest fault. The thing about humans is that we
can project our minds into a future that doesn't exist yet.
And so what we can do right now is we
can sit here. You know, we're in the studio. Everything
is amazing we have food, water, shelter, clothing, everything. But

(12:23):
if I'm like a lot of people do, Like if
I'm starting a business, right I can sit here and
I can think, well, I really want to start this business,
But then I start playing out all of the things
that could go wrong, which is what we tend to do,
not what goes right, but what could go wrong when
I project my mind into that future. The crazy part
is that my mind and my body are constantly connected,
So my brain is sending neuropeptides to my body and

(12:44):
creating hormones as if that moment is actually happening right now.
And so what happens is we tend to as humans,
as a protection mechanism, we tend to project ourselves into
a future that is fearful, that is scary, and that fearful,
scary feeling usually keep us in the exact same place.
And so what I always say is like, if I'm
going to imagine the worst that could happen, why don't

(13:06):
I at least try to see the best that could happen.
And so if I'm going to notice myself the awareness
of like I'm really in a lot of fear right
now with starting this business, and I'm going, man, what's
the worst that could happen? Well, then I might as
well close my eyes and say, like, what's the best
that could happen? And what would it feel like to
start this business and to be able to crack a
million dollars in a business? And how proud of myself

(13:27):
would I be to break a million dollars in sales
and to be able to build this and travel with
my family and provide what I've always wanted to provide.
And if I'm going to feel the feelings of fear,
why don't I also just try on feeling the feelings
of success in getting there. And so if we notice
it's an intellectual fear, the first piece that I always

(13:47):
say is there's three pieces. There's the awareness of it. Okay,
I'm aware. Then I'm in a state of fear. I
need a practice to get myself out of that. Okay,
if I notice myself in a state of fear, what's
my practice to get myself out of it? Well, I'm
gonna go ahead, and I'm gonna calm down and take
six deep breaths, and I'm gonna connect back to my heart,
and I'm gonna ask myself like, what's the best thing

(14:08):
that could happen. That's the practice to get myself out
of it. And then the last piece is repetition. So
it's awareness, it's practice, it's repetition. If I do it
over and over and over again, eventually I start to
rewire myself. So like, one of the things that that
I found in myself years ago that I didn't like
was was that I judge people. And I'm like, man,
I love people like I love I try to do.
I try to be of service as much as I can.

(14:30):
But an immediate thought that will come in my head
sometimes is like judgment of somebody that I don't know,
and I judge them, and I was like, I don't
like that pattern. I want to change this pattern within myself.
It's awareness. I've become aware of what I want to change.
And the one the first time I really did it,
I was at a grocery store and this guy had
this like bluetooth, you know, like the long bluetooth. It
was like as if he was, you know, making cold

(14:51):
calls at an office, but he was at the grocery store.
And immediately the first thought in my head was judgment.
And I always say, you can't change your first thoughts,
you could change your second thought. I noticed a judgment
is a first thought. Awareness. My practice that I decided
for myself was I'm going to force myself in my
head to say three things that I like about this guy.
I pause myself in the moment I found myself in

(15:11):
a pattern that I don't want to be in anymore.
What are three things that I like by the sky?
And I said it, and then I went on about
my day and I started doing this over and over
and over and over again. And one thing that I
noticed is that my first thought started changing to less
judgment and more acceptance, because ultimately that's what I really
want to work on, is more acceptance and loving of
people and of myself. And so I think it's it's

(15:35):
becoming aware of it. Once you're aware of the things
that you're trying the patter of you're trying to change,
what's the practice that you're going to take yourself down?
And then noticing that you're just going to need to
do it over and over and over again. But one
of the biggest keys is to give yourself grace as
you're doing it, because a lot of times we make
were become aware, and then we judge ourselves and we
beat ourselves up for it. So I think it's giving
yourself a lot of loving grace and going hey, I've

(15:57):
noticed this pattern. Don't worry, we're going to change it.
Let's go on practice and just continuing to do that.

Speaker 3 (16:02):
Yeah, it's so well said. Hey everyone, it's Jay here.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
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(16:29):
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Juny at a Target near you. I think so often
we get scared even of having the thought of what

(16:50):
could be possible, because we're scared that it can't be possible,
and we just find another thing to be fearful love.
And I love this idea of what you're saying around
transform in your thoughts, because I've definitely the more and
more I've studied books, the more and more I've read
and I've thought, I've discovered that all of our failure
and success in life is based on our most repeated thought.

(17:13):
And one of my biggest questions to most people I
meet now is what is your most repeated thought? And
most people don't know the answer because they're not aware
in your words, and a lot of people who do
know will say it's something like I'm not good enough,
I don't like the way I look, I am ugly,
and whatever else it may be for them, right, And

(17:35):
so we're either aware and it's negative, or we're unaware
because it's so subconscious. And I've started to recognize that
most of the thoughts we have are not that different.
They're the same thought that comes in a different voice,
a different tone, a different vocabulary, a different language, but
it's the same repetition. And so I've started to really

(17:55):
think about what's my most repeated door and how can
I be more? As you are saying, how can I
be more selective about it, and how can I choose
it more effectively rather than just let it be something
that's kind of just coming up.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, And it's like not don't identify with your thoughts,
you know, like one of the things that I don't
remember where I heard it before, but the way I
like to think about it, and I've heard you say before,
even like a lot of people say, like, oh, I
struggle with meditating, and I've heard you say before, where
it's not about mastering your thoughts. It's not about making
your thoughts going away. It's just becoming aware of your
thoughts a little bit more. Because when we close our eyes,

(18:30):
you know, about sixty percent of our brain is visual
for visual things to see. So when we close our eyes,
it kind of turns off a lot of parts, and
so thoughts usually come up and we become aware of those.
Like one of the things that I've been doing a
lot recently is like trying to be in as much
silence as possible, Like I'm just trying to be as
much silence as I possibly can, because I feel like
that's where a lot of my awarenesses, a lot of

(18:52):
my answers come from, and so when you sit there,
and the analogy that I love when you start thinking
of your thoughts is it's like sitting on the edge
of a mountain and down below there's just a road
going that you're looking at. And sitting on the edge
of the mountain is like meditating or just sitting in
silence and just you know, looking at your thoughts, and
you can watch the cars go by, the thoughts that
go by, and not have to be attached to them.

(19:14):
You don't find yourself getting sucked into the red car
that just went by. You just watched the cars go by.
And that's the way that I try to see my thoughts,
which is Okay, I'm going to watch them go by.
I'm not going to connect to them, but I can
look at them and be like, is this thought, which
you know about ninety percent of our thoughts the same
as yesterday, is this thought helping me and trying to
get to where I want to be in life? Or

(19:35):
is this thought holding me back from trying to get
to where I want to be in life? And if
it's helping me, then I want to strengthen it. If
it's not helping me, well then hey, as that guy
on the podcast said, I can control my first stop,
I could troll my second, So what would I prefer
my second thought to be?

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, I think you just hit the nail on the head,
like that's what it is for me. It's whether you've
understood that you're not your thoughts or not. That can
be quite hard for people because I think we're so
close to them. But even if you can practice distance
through meditation or mindfulness, the real win is being able
to look at a thought and say is it good
for me?

Speaker 3 (20:06):
Or is it not helpful?

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Like you just said, I think that is the wisdom
of it. That can I evaluate everything that's repetitive in
my mind and ask myself is this useful? Is it helpful?
Is it allowing me to move in the direction I want?
Because chances are a lot of what we're saying is
actually doing the complete opposite. And then you go, oh,
wait a minute. Even though it's interesting and even though

(20:28):
I could get lost in it, I don't want to
waste time, and therefore I'll move in the other direction.
You talk about procrastination in this book, and that, again
going back to your earlier title, is a block against
the psychology of action, and we all have a friend
or maybe we are that friend that constantly puts things off.
We postpone, we procrastinate, We say I'll do it another year.

(20:50):
I want to launch a podcast. Someone's been saying that
for two years. There's someone listening right now who wants
to start on Instagram page. They put it off for
six months. There's someone listening who's like, oh, I missed
out in the clubhouse thing, and then I missed out
on the TikTok thing, and now I'm missing out on
whatever the next thing is. And we procrastinate, hoping that
one day will come. What have you learned about procrastination

(21:11):
through your research when you were writing the book that
has helped people break that cycle? Because it seems to
apply to so many of our lives.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
I mean, the thing about it is this, if I've
always I always like to be like very extreme in
examples because we can go extreme that it makes a
lot of sense. But I always tell people like and
I always say it like, hey, I've given this. When
I used to give a lot of speeches, I would
be in front of people and say, hey, what's the
chance of you making a million dollars this year? Give me?
Give me numbers, and everyone's like zero percent, zero percent,
zero percent, one percent, there's always one percent, like five

(21:42):
and that's like the most it'll get to. And I said, Okay,
I'm gonna give you the most extreme example, but I
just want to see what happens. Okay, what's the percentage
chance of you making a million dollars this year legally?
And if you don't, everyone that you love dies. And
everyone's like one hundred percent, one thousand, one thousand percent.
I said, what changed? The goal? Didn't change, the timeframe,
didn't change. Why you're doing it changed. Would you wake

(22:04):
up in the morning if everyone that you loves life
depended on it and be like, yeah, well maybe I
should scroll on TikTok for a little while. No, you'd
be like, I'm going to take action immediately. And so
it doesn't need to be like a fear of losing everybody.
But what's really behind that is like why, like why
they're they're doing it? Like if I have a reflection
of anyone who doesn't know Jay, like you're one of
the hardest working people I've ever met, but you have

(22:26):
a really strong why, right, And that's like one of
the best parts about it. Where it's like when I
see jam like this guy has he has this internal
feeling of like I want to change the world, and
you work so hard trying to do it. And that's
one of the most beautiful things about you, is like
you're wanting to change the world and you have a
really strong why to it. And I think that if
most people could figure out, like, oh, yeah, well I

(22:47):
want to do this thing, why do you want to
do it? And my very first one on one coach
used to say to me, he would say, what's your why?
What's your why? Why are you doing this? Why are
you doing this? Even like hammer it home in my
head and I was like, why you asked this so much?
And he would always say, because if your why is
strong enough, your how will reveal itself. If you know
why you want to do something, how it's going to

(23:09):
be done, you'll figure out it doesn't matter. Things are
going to get in your way. There's going to be obstacles.
There's always gonna be obstacles, there's always going to be challenge,
there's always going to be moments of like I don't
know if I can do this, But if your why
is so strong, it's like I don't care what comes
up in front of me. I'm going to get it done.
Like most people, they want to be motivated. And I
have come to hate the word motivation because motivation is

(23:32):
so fleeting, like we can wake up and we can
listen to a podcast where we can get you know,
read something and be motivated, and then something can happen
to us and it's gone, which just disappears. What I
want to be is I want to be driven. Like
when you see a driven person, like you see it
in their eyes, like yeah, they're not stopping. And the
difference between a motivated person a driven person is that

(23:52):
a driven person has this why that they want to
see have happened in the world or in their life
or for their family. And so I think if people
are like I want to accomplish this goal, the very
next question is why, and then go why why? Why why?
And go deeper into it. An example I'd give him
the book is I had a coaching client years ago,

(24:12):
like eight nine years ago, and he was like, Rob,
I want to make one hundred thousand dollars this year.
I've never made it, And I was like why, And
I took him through what's called seven levels of why,
just keep asking why, why?

Speaker 1 (24:21):
Why?

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Why?

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Why?

Speaker 2 (24:23):
And it went from I want to make a hundred
thousand dollars a year because I've never done it before
to the eventual thing was he had just got into
a divorce a couple of years ago. Both of his
young children lived in a bad part of town with
his ex wife. He wanted to regain custody because he
was afraid that both of his children would be killed
in a drive by and he was so terrified of

(24:43):
it that that was his actual true why, And so
it wasn't the motivation. I didn't have to talk to
him say hey, you know how close you'd make a
one hundred thousand dollars this year? I said, hey, how
close are you to provided more safety for your children
this year? Because he wanted them to move in with him.
He wanted to be able to provide for them and
to make sure that they were safe. And so I
think that if we just ask ourselves, why do I
truly want to accomplish this goal, it kind of reveals

(25:05):
itself and it makes it a lot easier to take
the action.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah, for sure, I mean I you know, and I
appreciate all the kind words but I can definitely say
the only thing that's kept me going is my why,
because I think there are so many things that either
make you want to give up or slow down, or
become lazy or complacent. And when I look at it,
and someone asked me this, I was sitting with another
creator end of last year and he was just like

(25:28):
to me, Jay, why do you even do anything anymore?
Like what's the point? Like it seems like you're good,
Like why do you need to do anything? And I
was like, We've just got to the start of Like
I just got to the beginning of where I need
to be. I was like, we've just got to a
point where we can connect with lots of people, but
we need to give people the step by step process
to transform their life. And now we can take them

(25:50):
on the journey because people are listening, they're engaged. We
have a community, we have a connection with people. But
when I started out, we didn't have any of that.
So I see it as we got to the start
of where I want to be because and it was
just interesting to me that so many people struggle to
find their why, and I think it's because we don't

(26:11):
no one's and you just said, your coach helped you
do it. It was the same with me my art teacher
at from age eleven to age eighteen. He was my
art teacher at school, and every time i'd paint something,
or draw something, or do a collage or graphic design
and whatever i'd do, the first question he'd ask me
is why did you do it? And I'd be like,
because my initial response because it looks good like that,

(26:31):
you know, I was a kid, what do I know?

Speaker 3 (26:33):
And he'd be like.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Every year he'd be like, why did you do it?
And I'd be like, oh, because this color matches with
this color. And they'd be like, why do you do it?
And I'm like, oh, because it reveals the metaphor that
I think this is about. And then he'd be like,
why did you do it? And I'm like, because that's
how I'm feeling right now, I'm trying to And every
year it would ask me it would reveal more and
more layers of my psyche in a similar way. And again,
I've owed it to someone in my life who pushed

(26:56):
me to ask the question why, same as you, and
so I think what we're both saying is please ask
that question to yourself. But what if someone asked that
question and they feel stuck and they kind of go,
I've asked it, but it's kind of just like just
want a nice house. That could just want a nice car,
or just I just kind of want to you know,
like it's not that deep. And I think you're right,
like you said, we don't have a lot of primal fears.

(27:16):
Like some people are listening right now will have fears
of survival and that is driving them and they are
working hard and they are pushing and at the same time,
but people who are like driven, but they're like, I'm
not driven enough because I haven't got anything to be
that scared about it, right, or that worried about what?
How do that person discover their work?

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Yeah, I think for me, it's like my life was
never terrible or you know, like when I when I
started the Yeah, when I started the podcast the mindset
mentor like I was at a point in my life
where I was making a whole bunch of money and
I was twenty seven years old, and I was making
two hundred and fifty grand a year, and I was
working from home and everything was great, but I felt
like I was slowly withering away. And I could see

(27:56):
what the future was going to be while I was there,
and I said, oh, okay, if I do this for
another five years and I'm thirty two years old and
I'm still doing this, or I have my manager's job,
is that going to fulfill me? And it actually gave
me more anxiety to think about having my manager's job.
And then I sat there and I thought, Okay, well,
like I really want to do this podcasting thing. It

(28:16):
seems to be going pretty well. I want to coach people.
I want to help people. And I also at the
same time, was like starting an Amazon business and trying
to make money online and do that. And so I
thought about it and I asked myself, Okay, if I
fast forward five years from today, do I want to
be the person that's in sales management like I'm doing
now and consulting. Do I want to be the guy
that's selling stuff on Amazon and you know, incredible Amazon

(28:37):
business person. Or do I want to be the guy
that's coaching people and helping people change their lives. And
the immediate answer was very clear, coaching people and changing
their lives. And I was like, Okay, well, that feels
like it's the path and then immediately comes up is
all kinds of fear because I don't know what I'm doing.
Like back in the day twenty fifteen, nobody made any
money in podcasts. I didn't have any idea of how
to grow a business any of that type of stuff.

(28:58):
But what was important to me was number one, when
I fast forwarded into the future, the futures that I
didn't want seemed way more painful than trying the unknown
and what could be if I did take the path,
And so that was that became more of a fear,
like the fear of judgment, the fear of putting myself
out there are the people's opinions. It was there, it's
still there, and I don't know if you ever get

(29:19):
past it, but you just kind of get more used
to it. But the fear of being in the exact
same position, working the same job, maybe making a little
bit more money doing this for every day until the
day I die, was terrified. That that was a fear,
and I was like, well, then this path of the
unknown isn't as scary, and so I might as well
take this path of the unknown and I'll be fully transparent.

(29:41):
There was I shared this on like one other time.
I think there was a moment in twenty fifteen where
I started the podcast. In August of twenty fifteen. November
of twenty fifteen, I was feeling like a whole lot
of fear, and I was like, I might have to
go back and work for someone else again. And it
was just fear was so in my head, and I
was like, I gotta go back to making money. I

(30:03):
got a new house, I got a mortgage. I don't
know how'm gonna do this. I'm not making any money
doing this. My sister came out to me, and I believe,
you know, if you're silent, the messages are always there.
If you're looking the message, you're always there. And my sister,
I was at her house and she goes, hey, have
you ever seen this box the dad's stuff? And I
was like no, and she brought up my father was
an alcoholic. He passed away and I was fifteen from
his alcoholism. And she brought out this box and it

(30:25):
was like his glasses, there's a t shirt of his,
it was his watch, and the other things were a
bunch of letters. My dad was in jail for a
little while for multiple DUIs and they put him in jail,
and he would write letters to us. And he wrote
a letter to my sister on her nineteenth birthday and
I was reading this, you know, twenty fifteen, so he

(30:45):
would have wrote it to in nineteen ninety nine. And
the very last line was I hope you live your
life with courage, love and laughter. And I read it
and it was like the universe warped. And I was like, oh,
he wrote this for me. Like there was a moment
where I was like, he wrote this to my sister,
but the universe is giving this sussage through my dad

(31:07):
because I need to hear this right now because I'm
in so much fear. And the very first line is courage.
Live your life with courage, love and laughter. And I
was like, I got to commit, Like this has to
be the thing. I've got to make a decision. And
when you look at the root word of decision, it's dicaderia,
which means to cut off. I'm going to cut off
all other options.

Speaker 1 (31:26):
You know.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
I'd heard like Will Smith say there's no reason to
have Plan B because it distracts from Plan A, Like
it's got to be the thing, and I was like,
oh my god, I got to commit to this thing.
I can't have any more feelings of like I'm going
to go back to working for someone else. Like this
is my life path. I'm either going to succeed it
and I'm going to die trying. And I was like
I don't know what to do. I was like, I'm
going to get this tattooed to my arm, so I
literally have you live your life with courage, love and

(31:46):
laughter tattooed to my my very first tattoo I ever got.
But it was like for me, people always think like
when you make a decision, the fear disappears, like I
wish that I could do these things, but it's like
it's always there, but you've got to learn that, Like
the fear is always going to be there. But my
big fear is getting to end my life and having
not done this, having not tried to help people, you know,
like being in the room with my father after he

(32:10):
passed away when I was fifteen years old and realizing,
because he was the first person I ever met the
past away, I'm going to be there one day. And
I saw it. I was like, oh, yeah, that's I'm
gonna He was a dreamer and he was an amazing person,
but he didn't do what he wanted to do. I
am not going to live that life. I'm going to
create what I want to create. And now I have

(32:31):
all of the other fears that everyone else has, but
my biggest fear is getting to end my life and
not having tried or not having at least gone for it.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
Yeah, that's I love hearing that.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
And you've reminded me of a great speech that Jim
Carrey gave funnily enough, and he talked about how his dad.
I believe his dad and I could be getting this wrong,
but he said that his dad was an accountant and
he did that to be safe, and he said that
when he was young, his dad got made redundant from
his safe job. Right, Jim Carrey said that in life,

(33:02):
you are probably going to fail at something you don't love,
so you might as well try something you do love,
like this idea that I'm choosing the safe option, or
I'm choosing something that my parents taught my family wanted,
or I'm choosing something I think is secure even that's
unstable and uncertain, and so the uncertainty that you pursue
actually is less fearful because you're on top of it,

(33:25):
you're aware. And I think that's one of the biggest
habits that I think is changed my life is that
I stopped believing and accepting that I would get to
a place where I no longer had to use my brain.
Right Like I think we all believe subconsciously somewhere that
there's a paycheck, there's a bank balance, there's a home,

(33:48):
there's a fashion, there's a partner. That means from that
point on, I don't have to think about anything because
it's all good. And I'd say my best habit in
life is recognizing that that is the biggest myth that
we've been sold and I just don't accept it. And
I'm okay that my life requires constant work, ethic and

(34:10):
effort and awareness and being astute and being conscious because
that is what's actually being demanded by this world. A
uncertain world forces you to be conscious. But if you're
unconscious in an uncertain world, that's leading to a really
dangerous place.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
Sure, but I think.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
We're waiting for that moment where we can just not
be conscious because it's so much hard work. But to
your point, it's way hard at work being unconscious because
the amount of unconscious issues that arise are numerous.

Speaker 2 (34:41):
I think there's like a lot of wisdom in what
you said, because a lot of people would rather just
be like, well, let me get to this destination once
and there everything becomes better.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Andy, I want that too, I do too right.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
And I thought that for a long time. And it's
interesting the journey that I've had is, you know, I
always want to make money because I thought money was
going to give me what I needed. It would give
me that safety and security that I never felt as
a child. And then I got to a goal that
I wanted to get to, and I realized, I feel
exactly the same as I've always felt. I don't feel

(35:13):
any different. I don't feel any more secure, I don't
feel any happy, I don't feel any more loved. And
what I realized was I thought that the achievement, the
recognition from other people, the money in my bank account,
the buying cool stuff would fill what I actually thought
was and consciously now know is I thought that all
of those things would fill a void that was inside
of me. And what I realized is what I was
searching for from the external world is actually what I

(35:35):
was searching for for myself. And so the reason why
I spend so much time in silence nowadays, I'll just
go out of my porch and I'll just sit there
for a couple hours is because I'm trying to fill
the void that I have created through life and through patterns,
and through heartbreaks and through all of the things that
happened in my childhood. And I'm trying to be there

(35:57):
as the thirty eight year old man for the nine
year old boy that's still healing. And what I've realized
is that none of the material things, anything externally, will
ever give me what I was ever searching for. Everything
I've always searched for in the external was what I've
been searching for for myself. And so I don't one
hundred percent agree with you. I don't think there's any
destination we ever get to. I think I'm constantly going

(36:18):
to overcome more things every single day. And you know,
if I lived to one hundred, I would be so
lucky in another sixty two more years. I don't expect
that I'm going to get to the end of my
life and be like I figured it out. I think
the beautiful thing part about it is I think that
I was given this need for achievement to realize that
it doesn't change anything because the path of wanting to

(36:41):
achieve and doing it through business and doing it through
growing and all that stuff has actually lit up inside
of me a spiritual journey that wouldn't have been there
had I not wanted to go for those things.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Yeah. Absolutely, I heard this.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
You're reminded me of this story that's told about Benjamin Franklin.
And Benjamin Franklin had thirteen virtues and these were all
qualities that he aspired to develop in his life. Simplicity, authenticity, patience,
things like that. And when he was on his deathbed,
they asked him which one he didn't accomplish and he

(37:18):
said it was the thirteenth one and they said what
was that?

Speaker 3 (37:21):
And he said humility.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
And I love that because I think what you're saying
is humility doesn't mean you're meek or weak. It means
I'm able to accept there's always more to learn. I
don't know everything, and it's okay. I'm going to give
myself grace for it too. It isn't a feeling of
I'm useless because I don't know. It's actually, I'll become
more useful if I recognize there are things that I

(37:45):
still have to learn. And when I'm listening to you
about your spiritual journey and that's silence, I'm intrigued by
that walk us through how you fill that void almost
practice wise, because I identify with that fully. And it's
funny because we always talked about how our lives were
kind of opposite because when I met you, I'd kind

(38:07):
of gone down this deep spiritual pause but had no money,
and you were in the other boat where you you
had sustained yourself financially and create a really good stable
place for yourself, but you were seeking spiritually, and so
we were kind of at right. We had that conversation. Yeah,
and let's talk about that too. But I'm intrigued as
to how does that a couple of hours or whatever,
that time on your porch.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Like, how do you do that for people?

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Because I think we like the sound of that, but
then we get distracted by the next thing.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
What I've come to find and I can speak within
myself and just what I've seen from other people, but
what I've seen within myself is that I've learned a
lot of lessons from my dad, most of them after
his death. And me processing things. My father was the
way that he was, and he became an alcoholic because
he had things in his past that he hadn't worked through.

(38:54):
And the thing that he hadn't worked through is when
he was twelve years old, my father heard a gunshot.
He walked into the room and his dad had just
shot himself in the mouth of the shotgun. And so
my dad grew up in rural Tennessee. This is nineteen
you know, sixties when this happened. Nineteen seeah, nineteen sixties.
When this happened, there wasn't a whole lot for him
to understand it. There weren't podcasts, there weren't books to

(39:15):
read like we have nowadays. And so I always consciously
knew that what was happening was that he had not
healed his pain. And Gabormante says, don't ask why the trauma,
asked why the pain. And when I first heard Gaborimate,
I was like, oh my god, someone's finally saying what
I always thought with my father. And so you know,
we can look at him and say, oh, yeah, he's

(39:36):
an alcoholic and he didn't overcome as trauma. The trauma
the way it came up in my life is I
became a workaholic, and so I didn't. You know, sometimes
we could see someone and say, oh, they drink too
much alcohol, they do too much drugs, they eat too
much food. They and we can say, oh, yeah, that's
their their addiction. The problem in the hard thing in
our society is that my addiction of workaholic is rewarded

(40:00):
and people look up to it and they're like, you're
doing so great, You're making so much money. All of
this is so good. And what I came to find
is that my workaholism was just basically me trying to
not feel my feelings and to not work through and
process those things. You know, like scrolling on social media
could be that way for somebody. It could be some
people are addicted to working out, some people are addicted to,

(40:22):
you know, watching TV, and there's so many some people
addicted to shopping. There's so many different addictions that we have.
And what I found is that the hardest thing for
me was to stop and to just not have to.
I was always trying to fill every single moment of
my day. I always try to be so busy. When
I didn't have something to do, I'd find something to
do with my business. Businesses, you can always work all

(40:44):
day every day. And so what I've tried to do
and I've built in my business is a lot of
systems and processes through my VP of Operations has really
helped me with this a ton to be able to
take a lot of stuff off my plate so that
I have more time to just be. It's my personal
belief that I think that God, the universe, life, whatever
it is, speaks in silence, and so if I want

(41:05):
those messages, I need to be silent. What I found
for myself is when I would be silent, a lot
of anxiety would come up, and I'll you gotta go
to the next thing. You gotta go the next thing.
This is stupid, you should be doing something else. And
then I just realized that what I was trying to
do is achieve to fill a void. But I could
sit here and There's been moments where I'll sit on
my porch and I'll literally just start crying, and I'm like,

(41:28):
sometimes it's gratitude. Oh my God, I can't believe I've
been given this life. I can't believe I've had these challenges.
I can't believe that I've had this come up, but
I'm so grateful for every single aspect of it. And
sometimes i just sit there and tear it up and
I'm like, I don't know what this is, but this
is something my body's releasing, and I need to be
okay with this releasing process. You know. There's a really
interesting thing that that people could look at. There's two

(41:49):
videos that are really interesting on YouTube. One of them
is called polar Bear Trauma, where they show a video
of a polar there and they shoot it with a
tranquilizer gun from a helicopter, chase it down the helicopter,
really heightened experience. They shoot it with a traninkloves a gun,
so it's still awake, but it's not, you know, completely out,
and it starts having a convulsion, starts seizuring, and eventually

(42:10):
after its seizure is it's what it's doing is it's
releasing all of the cortisol, all of the adrenaline from
its body so that there's no trauma that comes with it.
And so then it goes after it's shaken for a while,
it takes a really deep breath and it just kind
of calms down. Almost identical video of a impaula that
gets attacked by a jaguar, and the jaguar gets scared off,
it starts to convulse, It takes a deep breath, and

(42:33):
then it moves it. And we're taught in our lives
at some point in time not to remove this and
to work through these traumas and these feelings. I think
children naturally do it through like temper tantrums. They move it,
and sometimes as adults we either need to have like
an adult temper tantrum in safety where you just take
a pillow and you can be angry, you could be mad,
you can just scream, you can cuss, you can smash

(42:55):
it against the bed, whatever it is in safety by
yourself without other people around, so you don't scare as well.
And then sometimes it's also just like sitting there in
silence and realizing that what is coming is going. It's
like when you squeeze an orange, what's inside of it
orange juice, because that's what's in it. Right when you
sit there and you put pressure on yourself or you
give yourself space, what's coming out is ask you what's inside,
and your body's natural intelligence is trying to let go

(43:18):
of it. And so for me. That's what I found
is that there's some moments where I'm just like incredibly grateful,
or some moments roun by doing nothing, Jay, I get
so much anxiety and I'm like, what is this why?
And instead of running from it, I get curious, and
I think if we could just get more curious. Like
I've been reading a whole lot of Christian Murty recently.
I love Christian Murty, and one says. One thing he

(43:41):
says is don't know yourself because knowing is based in
the past, and past is based off of memories. Start
learning yourself, which is in the present moment. So be
present and be like, what comes up? How can I
be curious about this anxious feeling or these tears or
whatever it is, and just be be in the space
to just know yourself or get to know yourself a
little bit better.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Yeah, it's so great.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
I mean talking about that, that goes to me back
to what we were talking about the start of it.
You were saying, how this idea of well, what if
the worst thing happens, what if the best thing happens?
And we're talking about this idea of Jim Carrey, and
you were saying that there's this experience of well, I
lost who Jim Carrey was. And what we've both talked
about is we are so much of what our thoughts are,

(44:23):
and if if you change the thoughts completely, you're almost
a completely different humor. Sure, so then who are we?
Right comes back to this know thyself asus learning thyself? Like,
what has that spiritual journey taken you on to understanding identity?

Speaker 2 (44:38):
I mean, God, yeay, that's that. I'm just I am
just a soul that chose this life. And one of
the things that I like to do is I like
to think that I chose this life in that immediately
takes me from being a victim in my life. Oh
what was me? My father was this way, he did

(44:59):
this to me, did this to me, and my teachers
acted this way versus me going like, I think my
soul chose this life because this is whatever is needed
for this path that it's on for, you know, whether
it's reincarnation or whether it's heaven or hell or whatever
it comes after this, I don't know, but I do know,
like right now I do have this life as Rob dile,

(45:19):
and as I get older, the thing I realized that
my body changes I'm not as fast as I used
to be. I'm a lot more sore than I used
to be. Like my body's changing, but my soul is
this thing that is just always there. And so the
thing that I've that I've come to realize is that
I want to I don't know if it's going to
sound weird, like I want to unattach myself from this body,

(45:40):
from everything around me, and I want to try to
connect back to what's internally inside of me. And the
one thing that I find is that that never changes,
like that there's like a truth that's behind that, and
truth is a thing that never changes. If something changes,
or if something could be questioned, it's not true. But
there's this feeling that feels like truth inside of me

(46:01):
at least. And everybody has their own truth, but for me,
my truth is there's something that's behind all of it.
And the more that I connect to it, the more
peace that I have. Like I listen to a lot
of Ramdas, and one of the things that he said
I was listening to him on the drive over here
and I listen to his meditation every day is the
only work that you have to do is the connection

(46:23):
to your own heart, and so I'm always constantly thinking
what's in the way of my own heart, what material possessions,
what things that I want to get her in the
way of that. And the reason why I think that
it helps is number one. I've had so much more
peace from trying to connect to that. And my relationship
with my wife has been so much better because of it.

(46:44):
Because I'm not blocking her from letting her in, she's
experiencing me fully, she starts to be able to open
up even more in different ways, I'd be able to
experience her more fully. And so for me, it's just
like connecting to the thing that's behind it that feels
like the only thing that's true. Now. Mind you, if
Rob fifteen years ago had heard this, he would be like,

(47:04):
what the hell is that guy talking about? It would
make no sense. But on this journey, I've just kind
of realized that there's something behind it all, and I
want to try to connect to that something behind it
all and see what it is. And so for me,
it's like I like to use myself as a guinea pig.
Everything I teach in the Mindset Mentor and the podcast
is all stuff that I'm trying within myself, and I
use it as almost my own therapy sessions where I'm

(47:25):
talking to everybody, but I'm talking to myself. I'm reminding
myself of all these things. And what I realized is
I realized that after fifteen nineteen years of personal development,
it's like, you know, personal development's like this cup right here,
and I feel like my cup in person ELM was overflowing.
And then I found spiritual development and I realized, oh
my god, it's a lot bigger cub and it's not

(47:47):
even close to being full, Like it's a bucket and
it needs It's my next thing that I'm working on.
So for me, it's like the mindset, the working through,
like I'm constantly working on those and trying to get better.
But for me, it's like I want to connect to
myself and see what else is in there.

Speaker 3 (48:00):
Yeah, for sure, thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
I mean, you made me remember a CS Lewis statement
that says you don't have a soul, you are the
soul and you have a body. Yeah, And I remember
I used to have that written on a little post
it note and I used to just look at it
every day first thing in the morning because I was
thinking about this concept of identity that the first thing

(48:23):
ninety nine percent of us do when we wake up,
first thing in the morning is we look in the mirror.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Usually we say.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Something like, oh I look tired or don't like that spot,
or God, I put on way.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
God, whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Right now, all of a sudden, we're already in the
bodily concept of life, this bodily consciousness, and now you
live your whole day thinking about the body. Whereas the
body need the body needs food, et cetera, and so
and that's natural, Like, that's not unnatural, that's normal.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
Like I do that too.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
But then you're saying that at the same time, you've
got a nurture and nourish and connect with this deeper sense.
How do you balance the two in a real world
where you have responsibilities, you have bills, you have things
to do that are connected to the body. But then
at the same time, we're like, but you're not this body,
So how do you balance how do you make sense
of these two seemingly opposite pursuits.

Speaker 2 (49:17):
Yeah, I mean, I'm the thing that that I think
I would have thought five or ten years ago, was
that the more that I get into spiritual goverment. The
less motivated I'll become with the most the less I
will want to achieve. That hasn't gone away any sort
of way. But what I have found is that I
achieve through a place of it's more like I'm not

(49:40):
white knuckling my way through life anymore. I'm not I
can take action and not be so wrapped up in
my fears and my limiting beliefs, and so it's not
like I'm in the world and of the world at
the same time, where it's like the soul is here
and I get as I'm speaking to everything that I say.
Is also something that I struggle with every single day.
I have not met for this process. There'll be times

(50:01):
where I find myself just so in the world and
I'm just like stress, there's things happening. There's this business
where there's all of this. You know, we've got employees,
we're hiring people, there's stuff happening. And then I just
take a step back and I'm like, it's just it's
just like a kind of like a game, like take
a second, like that's it's all real. I'm not saying
that's it's not true. It's not reality. It's not in

(50:23):
front of you, it's all there. But behind it all,
if I can connect to like a deeper sense that's
within me and in the soul that I feel is
in there, I'm like, hey, man, chill out for a second.
Like it's really not that big of a deal, right,
most things you know, there are There are definitely some
things that are big deals in people's lives, and there's deaths,
and there's there's things that people have to you know,

(50:45):
be in control of and be able to pay bills
and all that stuff. All those are real and they're
definitely necessary. But behind it all, you're still there, and
there's this thing that if I can take myself back
and kind of like out of my own head and
kind of into my heart, which has been a big
journey for me because I was I'm so analytical and
was never really taught like feelings and how to feel

(51:06):
and process emotions. But if I can take myself out
of my head and into my heart, what I've always
found is that my head is always projecting itself into
the future or sometimes projecting itself into the past. But
most for me, like if I said, owt to meditate,
sometimes it's like all of my to do list, all
of the things that I have to do, and it's
projecting itself into the future. So my brain is always
somewhere else. My body it's always here. And so when

(51:29):
I know as myself gets stressed, I knowice myself get anxious,
I notice myself whatever feelings I might be feeling. If
I can take a couple of deep breaths and kind
of get back into my body, I'm like, it's not
that bad. Like you'll fit you. You have overcome so
many things in your life. You'll figure out a way
to get through it. And so what I've found is
that it's not that I don't take the action. It's
not that I'm not wanting to achieve more and more

(51:51):
things and be able to have more fun and more
do all of this stuff in the external world. But
when I find myself kind of take a step back
and kind of be in my heart is it may
makes it a lot easier. I'm not like white knuckling
and forcing my way through life. It's almost like I'm
allowing life to happen through me. And I don't know
how it works, and I don't pretend to be smart enough,

(52:11):
but things start happening around me that helped me in
the process of getting to wherever it is that I
actually want to truly go.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Yeah, it's there's this really interesting thing in Eastern traditions.
There's obviously this idea of oneness and that everything's one,
and then there's this idea of duality, that there's this
side and then there's this side. And one teaching that
I've really connected with is this idea of simultaneously one

(52:43):
and different, and it sounds complex, but it's actually not.
It's this idea that this feels real and it can
be real, and it is real, and at the same
time there is a greater reality. So rather than this
feeling of everything's one, everything's the same, or it's disconnected,
there's real and fake, it's actually this idea that a
lot of things are real, but they're not the full picture.

(53:03):
So the idea that today in La it's like saying
the weather is rainy and cloudy, but that's not the
weather everywhere. So it's my current reality, but it's not
reality across the whole world. And when you start looking
at life in that way of there's this reality and
then there's this bigger reality, I think that's that. Zoom out,
that's that, Let me take a breath, that's that. Let

(53:25):
me look at the inner world as well. And I
think what it does is it gives you a certain grace,
and it gives you a certain detachment disconnection, but also
way recognition of the significance of what you do and
the insignificance.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Of both are so needed.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Like I believe what I do is significant, and at
the same time, it's totally insignificant.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
You won't.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
We won't be remembered in a thousand years.

Speaker 3 (53:49):
And it's so okay, but we take it so seriously.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
And if you only do one or the other, Like
if I only see my life as extremely significant, everything's
too high pressure. Oh my gosh, I would it would
hurt me and it would cause me pain if I
thought everything I did was of utmost significant and if
I thought my life was insignificant. If I thought my
life was irrelevant, that would be really bad for my
self esteem. I do anything, I won't be able to function.

(54:15):
And so I think it's really interesting because the more
and more I'm learning, I'm like, I have to learn
how to hold these two seemingly opposite things, but actually
they're so connected and symbiotic, and they're so synchronous because
they both have value. Going back to which thought has value,
the collective thought of my life is significant and insignificant

(54:37):
is the most helpful thought, because thinking I'm significant and
insigniant were both unhelpful thoughts.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
Oh my god, you actually just summarize perfectly what I
feel like actually has been going through my head for years,
which is what I do. I do believe is so important,
and at the same time, I'm like, none of it matters, right,
It's this weird duality free but it's so fering because
it it takes so much pressure off where it just
becomes like fun, Like it's how can I bring more

(55:06):
fun into life? Like when did we lose the joy
of life and the fun of life that we had
as children? When was it programmed out of us? And
how can I connect to that child and bring that
spirit back in and be like, yeah, I'm going to
do some amazing things in the world, but without it
being stressful, with just with it being fun and with
it being something that I can do in it and
it effortlessly flows out of me, Like I believe that

(55:28):
every single person is incredibly creative and we are creators
at the actual core of us, and a lot of
us have lost it, and I lost it for years,
and so what I think is, how can I make
the creativity flow out of me in some sort of
way and just allow the space for it to happen.
And one of the things that happens, and it's not
necessarily my goal of it, but when I sit in silence,

(55:52):
I get ideas that come through and I'm like, oh man,
I don't know how I didn't see this, And that's
where they all are. So it's like a lot of
times we're trying to force things that happen. We're trying
to force creative You're trying to force ideas. But sometimes
when I get there, I'm like, oh man, yeah, this
is the thing I've been searching for. And it's just
I think every person just needs to give themselves just
a little bit more space to not be on their phone,

(56:13):
to not be constantly, you know, And a lot of
people have children and their children are up. Can you
wake up a little bit earlier and not be on
your phone and just sit in silence and see what
comes up? And I think that it's really important for
people because what you'll notice is exactly what you're saying,
which is what we do. Like this life is so important,
but it is very insignificant, and that's okay, there's nothing

(56:34):
wrong with that. Like I've I love watching videos on
YouTube about how small the Earth is compared to the
rest of the universe, and it stresses my wife out.
She's like, I'm gonna have a panic attacker. Why do
you watch this because I like to remind myself that
even though it's all happening and I'm in it, none
of it actually truly matters.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Yeah, and that's okay.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Absolutely, And I think when I'm listening to you, there's
this feeling that, you know, I feel like I agree
with you. I think everyone is a creator. I do
believe that creativity flows when we connect with that, but
I think sometimes we feel so distracted from it, and
it's so much easier to pull out our phone. It's
so much easier to put on a show in the background,
it's so much easier to do all of these it's

(57:14):
so much easier to do all those things at the
same time. Like now we're no longer ever with one person.
We're with one person, we're both on our phones, and
we're watching a show at the same time, and we've
got our laptops doing work. So you've literally got three
screens in front of you, five screens in total. And
there's so much distraction, right we know that, How does

(57:37):
a person possibly And I say this out of like
compassion and empathy because it's like it requires so much
from us because everything around us is built for distraction.
The foods we're eating, the things we drink and consume,
the stuff that's created around us, it's all to distract.
So you're fighting like almost what feels to a lot
of people like a losing battle.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
What do you do to get pick yourself back?

Speaker 2 (58:00):
I mean, what's more? What's more important than that? You know, Like,
what's more important than connecting to your true self? To
working on yourself? Like I why do I like, why
am I so hardcore in mindset? Because I know how
many people are so wrapped up in in their mindset
and their thoughts and their beliefs and their patterns that
they're stuck in. And what ultimately we all want, I

(58:21):
think is freedom. And the way to get through to
that freedom is to work on yourself, whatever that looks
like for whatever stage someone is in you know, and
I can have empathy for every person at every stage
because I've been through so many stages of my process,
and I think that it comes back to like why
are you doing it? What do you want? If you're

(58:43):
trying to disconnect from your phone? Why you know? Like
for me, like I recently deleted Instagram from my phone.
I did it last year for a month fell like,
go was amazing. The book came out and I was like,
I gotta get back on. I got to promote, I
got to make sure things are good. I recently just
deleted it again. And now everything that I post, everything
flows through my team, So it's not like it's just gone,

(59:03):
it's just now I just happened to flow. Everything flows
through my team. Why did I do that, though, was
because I don't want to live my life on that phone.
And that one thing that I noticed is that Instagram
was one of the things where I would pick it
up and I would just somehow get to it, and
I wasn't even thinking about getting to it, and I

(59:24):
was like, my life is not this little tiny thing.
My life is everything that's out here, and so why
do I want to get Why did I delete it
was because I actually want to be in everything. I
want to be present with my wife when we have children.
I want to be present with our children. I want
to be the most present version of myself as I
possibly can. And I can't imagine that I'll get to

(59:45):
the end of my life, be one hundred years old
and be like I wish I would have spent more
time on Instagram. I wish I would spend more time
watching Netflix, you know, and I've I've been addicted to
all of those things. I'm not, you know, above any
of this stuff. But I started looking at my off
and saying like, is this helping me get to where
I want to be in life? Is it creating more
peace in my life? For me, it was creating way

(01:00:05):
more stress. To was perpetuating these feelings that I'm trying
to let go of, trying to work with. And so
for me, I think what's important to people is like,
if you want to make a change, why do you
want to make the change? And for me, looking at
a screen is not as important as actually physically being
in front of my wife and giving her what she
actually truly deserves. It's just one hundred percent of my

(01:00:26):
attention because there's been times where I've not given her
one hundred percent of my attention. And as we start
to have kids and stuff, I don't want to be
a distracted parent. I want to be with them. I'll
never sit there and go, well, when my kids were kids,
my kids were children, like I wish I would have
spent more time on Instagram. I wlush to spend more
time watching Netflix. I just think if for me, like

(01:00:47):
the level of the place I met in my life is,
I want to be as present as possible. Because I've
worked for things that I've climbed ladders, I've gotten to
different places. I've realized none of those things fulfilled me
any sort of way. And this journey I've been on
in the pasta you know, ten years, seven years ago,
and we started talking about the bag, about Gita, and
I started meditating a whole lot more and getting into is.

(01:01:07):
I realized, oh, these things are bringing me peace. And
the more peaceful I feel, the more that it becomes
easy to actually achieve and create the stuff that I
want to in life. And so for me, the presence
in the piece at this point in my life, things
might change. I don't know what it's going to be
in five years are actually things that are the most
important to me.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
Yeah, it's so interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
I think we feel like being anxious and being you know,
kind of like busy and stuff will actually create the
most effectiveness.

Speaker 3 (01:01:33):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
But what you just said, this idea of if you
start from a place of peace, and I think about that.
I completely agree with that. If you walk into something
with stillness, it gives you clarity, gives you perspective. You
can zoom out, you can zoom in. If you're buzzing
around and moving around, you lose all of that. It's
all blurry and fuzzy. And I want to ask you,
what's what's a lesson you wish you learned earlier in life.

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
I think it's that what you're searching for externally, you're
actually searching for yourself. I think that's become very apparent
to me in the past few years is I was
always looking for somebody to give me love, somebody to
give me acceptance to achieve so that I could be accepted.
And what I actually truly think is what I was
searching for from everyone else is what I was searching

(01:02:22):
for for myself. So a lot of people that are
like a lot of people I know are people pleasers.
They come to me Rob, I'm a people pleaser, and
it's like they'll change themselves to try to get love
and acceptance from somebody else. But that's just feeling a
you know, it's like a hungry ghost. It just continue.
The food just goes through the ghosts, it doesn't go anywhere.
And what we're actually searching for is what we're searching

(01:02:42):
that love and acceptance for our self. And one of
the biggest things that I think I've learned in probably
the past two years is I was always trying to
grow and change myself because there were aspects of myself
that I didn't like and I resented. And what I've
changed it to in the past couple of years is

(01:03:05):
I'm going to love every aspect of myself. So there's
some parts of Rob that are beautiful, that are amazing,
that love people, that want to connect. There's some great
parts of Rob. There's some parts of Rob also that
are very selfish, that are very judgmental, that are a
little bit short, not as present as he should be.

(01:03:25):
Instead of trying to change those and hate those, I've
actually just tried to love them and realized that the
selfish rob that exists was some sort of thing that
was a part of past conditioning that came up from
needing to be selfish as a child for whatever it
might have been, whatever reasons it might have been, And
I can love that side. I mean, what I realized

(01:03:47):
is that if I try to change it, it gets stronger.
If I love it and I accept it, it kind
of chills out and it doesn't disappear like I'm not like, yeah,
these parts me don't exist. It's me looking like Internal
family systems is a therapy where you look at all
parts of you and who you are, and you try
to figure out a way to understand how the entire

(01:04:08):
orchestra works together. You know, when I was writing my book,
I was sitting there and I was going so hardcore.
Like you and I come from the world of creating
viral videos. I would spend so much time on every
single line to make sure it was perfect right, because
I wanted to make sure, like I've only got thirty
seconds or a minute to get the message to be

(01:04:30):
as clear and concise as possible. Let me try to
make as perfect as possible. And I used to do
a lot of poetry. I used to do a lot
of songwriting when I was younger, so I was used
to making every line as potent as I could. As
I was writing this book, I was like sixteen rounds
of edits in editing every single piece of it. And
there's a part of me that said it said why
are you doing this? Like? Why are you doing this?
And I was like, I want to write a book
that helps people and changes people's lives. I want someone

(01:04:52):
to not know what the mindset mentor podcasts, but they
walk into Barnes and Noble acs book and they're like, interesting,
let me read it, let me pick it up, and
they read it and it changes their life life. And
then I've played Devil's advocate. I said, but you also
want it to be successful, don't you. You also want
it to be a New York Times bestseller, so you
can have a little badge to put on yourself and say,
New York Times bestseller. You want it to be this

(01:05:13):
incredibly selling thing because you know, if it takes off,
you're gonna make great money for a very long time
if it's a perennial seller. And I thought to myself, Okay,
can I use that ego e side of me to
actually help me create a better book, and I could.
And so what I realized is instead of hating that aspect,
it's like a tool on my tool belt. When I
need to bring that side of me out, I can

(01:05:33):
bring out that side of me out and say, you
know what, I'm going to create the best freaking book
that I can of, the best podcast that I can are,
the best real that I can to try to impact people.
And so it's not about like trying to force change
on myself. It's about loving every aspect of myself the
quote unquote good and bad. Eventhough there is no good
or bad but every aspect of Rob. And if I

(01:05:54):
need to use it, I can bring it up and say, hey, Rob,
I need this version of you right now. But I'm
not going to fight it anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:06:00):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
In the monastery, we'd always talk about how the word
is an arthur, which means unwanted. Thing that seems unwanted
actually needs to be engaged, Like you need to engage
it in the service of doing something higher really for
it to be purified. It's like you can't just cut
it out. You can't just get rid of it. You
can't just hate it to go away. You can't just
shame it away. You can't just guilty away. It has

(01:06:23):
to be engaged in a higher service IY impacting others,
helping others, improving your own life, improving the lives of others.
Because when it's engaged, then it becomes purified. Because if
you just ignore it, it would just stay there, and
if you try and push it away, it's gonna push
back and just get it. But if you engage and go, yeah,
you know what, I do have that in me, but

(01:06:44):
I'm going to use that tendency to try and help
this person do this. That's the only way that it
starts to be purified. And so that resonates very strongly.

Speaker 3 (01:06:53):
Great answer.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
The other one I wanted to ask you was what's
a lesson you have to learn the hard way?

Speaker 3 (01:07:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
I think the one that's been the most potent for
a long time is you can't do it all on
your own. For me, I don't think I was able
to trust people for a very long time.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
I went to a therapist one time and he had said, yeah,
you've been you've been neglected, and I was like, Noah,
I haven't been neglected like I had food, water, sheltered clothing,
all these things. And he's like, no, you were emotionally
neglected from your father, and and I was like, oh
my god, I that really like ringed true. But what
happened was I had developed this feeling over my lifetime
of I've got to do it alone. I can't trust anybody.

(01:07:33):
No one else can do it for me, you know,
Like there were times when my dad would even though
it was and he was an amazing person, I always
tell people like I was, I'm so grateful that I
had the father that I had. He was. He never
beat me, he never yelled at me, he never touched
me in appropriately. He would just get drunk and fall asleep.
And when he fell asleep, he'd forget about me in
a lot of different ways. Right, So there was that
neglect of like I might he would say, Hey, I'm

(01:07:54):
gonna come pick you up and we're going to go fishing,
because I lived in Florida, and I, you know, would
sit on the front porch for an hour or two
hours in my fishing pole and he would just never
show up, right, And so were there were aspects of that,
And I think somewhere along the line, I developed this
feeling of like, no one's gonna help me. I have
to do it all on my own. Which there's a
piece of that which there is some truth, right, like

(01:08:14):
I do have to sometimes step forward and be the
person to do it. But for the longest time, I
never understood the phrase no man is an island because
I was like, I have done everything by myself. And
then I started looking around me and I was like, no,
I haven't. The universe has always been there giving me
everything that I need in every person to help me
in some sort of way and prove and get better.

(01:08:35):
And you know, as everything's grown, the podcast has grown,
my company has grown, all this stuff. We have thirty
people on the team. Like I can't do it on
my own. I can't help people on my own the
way that I wish that I could if i've I'm
not thirty people. I don't have thirty days. You know
that they can get done and we can get done
in one day that I could get done in an
entire month. And so what's been big for me is

(01:08:57):
is trusting people to be able to help me and
to be able to ask for help, whether that be
in a business, but also like go into my life
and be like, hey, I'm really struggling right now. Can
you just talk to me for a few minutes, And
knowing that she doesn't think like, oh, he's not man enough,
which is you know, fear that I had, like oh,

(01:09:18):
if I go to her with my problem, she's gonna
be like he's not man enough. But for her to
be like, yeah, let me hold space for you, let's
talk it out. And so I think the biggest thing
for me is like, is learning that I can't do
it all on my own. It's okay to it's actually
strength to ask for help. It's strong to ask for help,
and that I need to be better at at asking
for help when I do need it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:38):
That's a great one. That's a great one I can
relate to in so many ways.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
And yeah, it strikes a chord for sure, and I
think so many of us, you know, both of those questions.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
Think about it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
You know what's taken, what's the lesson you learned the
hard way? And what's the lesson you wish you learned earlier? Yeah,
and write them down because you might forget it. Yeah,
and you kind of fold back in that cycle often
Rob we end every on purpose episode with.

Speaker 3 (01:10:03):
A final five.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Okay, these questions have to be answered in one word
to one sentence maximum.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Oh my god, okay, and so I'm so wordy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
That's that's I'll do my best, Rob DIZI your final five.
The first question is what is the best advice you've
ever heard or received.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
I'll give you the I'll give you the sentence and
if you want me to explain it, I can. But
everything is your fault.

Speaker 3 (01:10:23):
Yeah, you can explain it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
Everything is your fault comes back to like you or
the CEO of your life. My very first mentor that
I had. I paid five hundred dollars a month to
have my first coach when I was nineteen, about to
turn twenty, and we worked together for two years and
we had some great calls. I don't remember any of them.
I remember one and what it was was I had
made so many excuses as too while I was late
to calls why I didn't hit my assignment, so I

(01:10:45):
didn't do what I needed to do. And he had
this really tough conversation. I mean, he said, Rob, if
a business succeeds, whose fault is it? And I was like,
I mean, what do you mean. He's like, if a
business succeeds, all one thousand employees move into the direction
they have a successful year, who's faults it that the
person who orchestra it. I was like the CEO. He said,
if a business fails, whose faults it? And it's the CEO.

(01:11:06):
He said, Rob, if you get to the end of
your life and it's not what you wanted it to be,
and you didn't create the life that you wanted to
make the money she wanted to have, the success, the love,
the happiness, travel the places that you wanted to, whose
fault would it be? And I said it'd be my fault.
And he said, if you did create the life that
you wanted to you had to love, the happiness, the abundance,
everything that you wanted, whose fault would that be? And
I said it would be my fault. And he said
the problem with you is you're treating this treating this

(01:11:28):
life as you if you're the victim. And what you
need to realize that everything that happens to you is
your fault and that your life won't change until you
decide that you want to be the CEO of your life.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
I do know how that would have felt when you
heard it at that point hurt. Yeah, exactly with that mindset,
and I think a lot of people today would find
that offensive. They might get hurt by it. They might
what how did you transfer that energy to be like, no,
this is actually helpful, it's not hurtful.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
Yeah, I mean I was a little bit hurt, but
there's I felt truth. I felt like, yeah, he's right,
because when I look at the path of where my
life was going to go, had I continued to blame
everybody else, it wasn't going to be good. But when
I looked at people who I knew who took full
ownership of their life. One of my probably my first

(01:12:17):
mentor without even being on purpose, was my uncle Dan,
who was an incredibly successful guy, had a bunch of success,
but also is incredibly giving, always so loving, and he
never blamed anybody else. For when his business failed and
he brought it back from nothing and rebuilt it, he
never blamed anybody else. He was always there for everyone else,

(01:12:38):
but he always took everything as his responsibility. And you know,
it's like, not everything that's happened to you in your
life is your fault, but whatever it is that you
have it is your responsibility to work through. Will Smith
also said this right where it's like, it's not my
fault that my father was an alcoholic, but it's my
responsibility to do with what do with it because it's

(01:12:59):
the reality that I have and I have to work
through those things. And so for me it was like
it rang really true where I was. I was like, Okay,
it's right, and if my life is going to change,
I have to be the person to change it. And
that's when it clicked for me. That conversation, I could say,
is absolutely on the one conversation that changed my life completely.

Speaker 3 (01:13:18):
Powerful.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
Second question, what is the worst advice you ever had
or received?

Speaker 2 (01:13:23):
Fit in with everybody else?

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
Good? Question number three? What is your most repeated though.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
As of recently is I'm proud of you. I try
to tell myself that every single day. My mom told
me that a lot as a kid. I'm trying to
repeat it to myself.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
I love that. That's a great one.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
Question number four the number one habit that changes your life,
like a daily habit, like something that you.

Speaker 2 (01:13:50):
Practice, meditation and breathwork, finding space for myself?

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
Love it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
Final question if you could create one law that everyone
in the world had to follow.

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
What would it be take you.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
There one law that everybody in the world has to follow,
to take five minutes every single day to practice self awareness.
I think that every problem in this world could be
solved if people were more self aware. I think that
all of our problems come from lack of self awareness.

(01:14:28):
And if people were more aware of our actions. You know,
if politicians are more aware of their actions and how
it's affecting the entire world. And if parents were aware
of how their actions are affecting their children and as
you know, a son, if I'm aware of how my
actions are affecting my mom, my sister, my wife, everybody

(01:14:49):
around me. If we could take five minutes to practice
being more self aware, I think that the entire world
would be better.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
I love that Rob Doll everyone. The book is called
Level Up How to Get focused, procrastinating and Upgrade your Life.
If you don't have a copy, go and grab it already.
You'll be able to see my testimonial on the back
if you're at the top of the back there. Make
sure you go and grab a copy and tag me
and Rob on Instagram, on x on TikTok with what

(01:15:15):
resonated with you, what connected with you. I love seeing
and I want Rob to see as well, what you're practicing,
what you're trying to put into action in your life.
And I can't wait for you to level up.

Speaker 3 (01:15:24):
Rob.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
Thank you again, Thank you man for coming on and
opening your heart and being so vulnerable and at the
same time giving so many practical insights of how people
can move from where they are to where they really
want to be and even deeper.

Speaker 3 (01:15:36):
So thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Well. Thank thank you Jay, like I've known you for
seven years now and your inspiration for like doing good
in the world, and I can see that the actions
that you take are from your heart and from a
place of purpose, and it's inspiring from you to always
see that.

Speaker 3 (01:15:51):
Thank you, man. I appreciate you, of course. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with
Dr Gabor Matte on understanding your trauma and how to
heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

Speaker 3 (01:16:05):
Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a
tree doesn't grow where it's hard and thick, does it.
It goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rob Dial: How to Break the Cycle of Procrastination & 3 Ways to Change Your Repeated Thoughts