Jace Lacob: I’m Jace Lacob, and you’re listening to MASTERPIECE Studio.

It’s not so much a spoiler as a long-anticipated fact: Helen Alderson and James Herriot are finally engaged.

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James My mum thinks that if I stay in this job, I’ll never find a wife. And Siegfried thinks I should just get on and marry you.

Helen Ha! What did you say?!

James I laughed.

Jace James surprises Helen with a rather romantic proposal in his car on the side of the road, with the breadth of the beautiful Yorkshire Dales laid out before the young couple.

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Helen What’s the worst that could happen?

James You’d say no.

Helen To what?

James Asking you to marry me.

Jace Helen, of course, is as practical as always — and makes it clear that the spontaneous James had better ask her father, as well.

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Helen Look dad in the eye and don’t gabble. Sometimes when you’re nervous, you gabble.

James What d’you mean I gabble? I don’t gabble, when have I ever – I hardly ever, unless I’m really nervous  — maybe. Right.

Jace With another wedding for her character now on the horizon, Rachel Shenton returns to the podcast to explain what Helen wants from a life with James — and where there’s room for compromise.

Jace And this week we are joined by All Creatures Great and Small star Rachel Shenton. Welcome.

Rachel Shenton Hello! Thank you for having me.

Jace Oh, my pleasure. I want to go back a little bit. Series one of All Creatures ended with Helen realizing she couldn’t go through with her wedding to Hugh.

Rachel Yes.

Jace How did that decision alter the trajectory of what Helen thought her life would be like?

Rachel Well, first and foremost, it was more of an assumption that she should marry Hugh. We’re in 1937 they’ve been together for a long time. They grew up together. Both families know each other. It makes sense. So it was more of an assumption as opposed to a kind of anything that was hugely romantic or anything like that. And I think she would have done it. And then obviously, James came on the scene and illuminated another path that wasn’t available before, or that she’d never even thought of, and that made her question things with Hugh. Now what that actually meant and practicality was her life may not be as secure because there was a lot of financial security that Hugh bought, particularly for her family, he owned Heston Grange, and that was something. But ultimately, the thing about Helen, the bit that I love about her more than anything is she, you know, she does what’s right, not what’s easy. So she backed out of the wedding, which was a very brave thing to do now, but certainly was then. And I think she thinks, ‘OK, it’s just me, and I don’t necessarily have that backup now.’ But she can live a truthful life, which is what’s very important to her.

Jace Helen and James Herriot begin series two somewhat estranged. Their argument in episode one over Scruff is truly about other things.

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James I know I’m not from around here, and I might not understand the way things are done but I know the difference between right and wrong. Killing a perfectly good animal can never be right.

Helen It’s not your dog or your reputation.

James It was a mistake. Animals mess up sometimes. Just like people do. There’s no reason for you to keep punishing yourself for anything.

Helen What am I supposed to do? Carry on as if nothing’s happened?

James What’s the alternative? The dog didn’t do anything wrong. He deserves a second chance. I think you both deserve a second chance.

Jace What does Helen think about having a second chance now at happiness if she is going to lead that truthful life, does she have a second shot at happiness?

Rachel I mean, I really think that because she is such a principled girl, she really takes on board everybody’s feelings, she’s hugely empathetic. And so there was a real push-pull at the start of the series for Helen because, although, you know, it’s no secret that she’s drawn to James, there is still this thing with Hugh that is unresolved to a certain degree. I know she wants to put it right. She wants to make sure everybody’s OK, that’s just innate in her nature. So although, I think she really does believe that she deserves a second chance, she also thinks it has to be on the right footing. And so she probably wants to make things okay with the community and Hugh before she, you know, tentatively steps towards James, I think.

Jace Hugh returns in episode five, and this is the first time that Helen has seen him since their wedding was called off and Hugh decamped to France. Complicating things is the fact that Hugh still controls the least on the Alderson’s farm. Is Helen concerned at all going into this episode that Hugh might exact some sort of revenge by refusing to renew the lease?

Rachel Yes, she’s very concerned. I don’t think she thinks it would be revenge, but I think she thinks he may be hurt and acting and acting without thinking, really, I don’t think she necessarily thinks it would be a revenge thing because I think she has faith in the relationship that they had and that they ultimately they do care about each other a lot, even though they were, I think, friends more than sort of anything romantic. But she’s very concerned at the start. You know, Dad’s getting older. Jenny’s coming to a time when she’s about to leave school and education and that everything falls on Helen. Helen really feels like the emollient in that house, really. She keeps everything together. And so, yeah, she’s lost sleep over that, over that conversation. You never know what is going to say. Even if he wasn’t being difficult, he’s well within his rights to change his stance on that.

Jace I mean, that’s the thing, this is the 1930s. He is a land owner. There is financial complication sort of affecting this entire area. He would be within his rights to sort of say, you know, ‘No, I’m not renewing the lease, I’m going to sell the land, I’m going to do whatever. It’s my land.’ And we get the sense that the Aldersons are sort of barely holding on. So this becomes sort of a pivotal moment in their lives. Helen asks her dad the question we’re all thinking.

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Helen What time did Hugh say he’d be up?

Richard Eleven o’clock.

Helen And he just said it where about the lease?

Richard He did.

Helen So d’you think he wants to sell? Is that what he’s coming to tell us?

Richard You know as much as I do.

Helen What if he’s decided not to renew the lease? Because of what happened between me and him?

Richard Then I’d say you were right not to marry him.

Rachel I loved that too, I loved it when I read it.

Jace It’s just such a such a, pat fantastic answer because it is truthful. If he does do that, she was entirely right and it’s revealed his true nature. Is that any sort of consolation in the moment for Helen?

Rachel It’s a consolation in terms of feeling that she has the support of a dad and that they’re united. I think that’s a lovely moment in that, you know, he removes everything else and just says it exactly, he shoots from the hip which you know you’re always going to get with Richard Alderson. And so I think she’s very appreciative and maybe it does make you think a little bit. Maybe, maybe that kind of she’s got faith in Hugh, and I suppose I think she thinks it’s going to be alright when he says that. And she’s right.

Jace I mean, when the two do come face to face, there is this understandable awkwardness between Helen and Hugh, given everything that has happened at this point. Does Helen second guess her decision at all? Or does that tension reinforce the notion that she made the right decision to live this sort of truthful life that she’s living?

Rachel I don’t think that there’s any feelings of regret or that she’s made the wrong decision. I think she’s very sad or concerned that she’s hurt him. She doesn’t want to hurt anyone. But I don’t think she’s questioned her decision, no. She’s nervous and anxious because of the lease, because of what that might do to a family. And yeah, because she hurt him and they haven’t had that interaction yet. But I don’t think there’s any regret from Helen’s part at that point, no.

Jace When I spoke to Ben Vanstone, he said that he actually had written the scene in which Helen tells Hugh that she’s not going to go through with the wedding, which obviously wasn’t shot, did not make it into the show. Have you read that or did you have conversations with Ben about what happened in that moment to help sort of inform this reunion between the two of them?

Rachel No, I haven’t read it, and I’d spoken to Ben about what I thought she’d say. So I don’t know if I knew there was a scene written or if they were thinking of writing the scene. But I remember Ben saying, ‘What do you think she’d say?’ And I said that she loved him very much, but she wasn’t in love with him. And she only realized that when James came on the scene, not that she’d say that to Hugh. But I mean, come on, because she’s not that honest. But I think that that’s kind of, that was in my head, that it was done with love and kindness and respect. And she just told the truth, and that’s so difficult for somebody to hear, I think. And she recognized the weight of that. And so when they meet for the first time in that field, when you mentioned, she’s well aware of what she said and can and and well aware of how sort of hurt he was at the time. But no, I hadn’t read it, and if I knew what it was, it really would’ve been helpful to read a version of that if I’d known, but I kind of had my idea of what was said in my head anyway. So I guess that works.

Jace Hugh, of course, is far more gallant than I expected him to be here. He does renew the lease, and he even goes so far as to add Helen and Jenny’s name as inheritors on the same terms, which is much more than any of the Aldersons expected. What does this moment mean to Helen? Is it a mere gesture, or is it, does it read as something deeper?

Rachel I don’t think she reads it something deeper, and that might be because she doesn’t want to. I know there was a couple of raised eyebrows from, you know, Richard, as to why he’s doing this, even Jenny and then James at one point. But I think Helen is one of those people that, she likes to see the best in everybody. And I think she really thinks that that’s just his way of putting it right. And he’s one of those, obviously been with Hugh for a long, long time, she knows his emotional ceiling’s quite low and so he might not be, you know, a man of words that can tell her in detail and gush about how he might feel or how he has hurt. But that’s his way. And she knows that and understands that. And so the gesture is so lovely and heartfelt for Helen, but there was never a moment where she would accept it because she knows what it is.

Jace I do love the scene where Helen and Hugh finally have this conversation at the cricket match, and Helen tries to apologize for what happened. She says, ‘I never wanted to hurt you. We weren’t right for one another and I knew I wouldn’t make you happy.’ And they agreed to be pals. Does it feel, in this moment for Helen, like a burden she’s been carrying has finally been lifted — that she has confronted Hugh and sort of had this conversation, in a public setting?

Rachel Yes, yes, absolutely. Because from the day that he bought around, you know, he came over to extend the lease and obviously bought Monty over, she tried to have a conversation with him, then, she said ‘You have to shoot off,’ and he did, he closed that down straight away. She knows he’s quite difficult to have those kind of conversations with. And I imagine on the day of the wedding, when she told him what she told him, he took off. I don’t think it was going to be a particularly long exchange. So I think that that was the first time that she will have spoken to him about the events that happened in any kind of detail or even shared more of how she was feeling. I don’t think she got that far on the wedding day. And then he took off to France and they weren’t they weren’t in contact. So that was so important that she had that moment and explained it a little bit and also saw that he was OK. That’s really important to her as well. And so, yeah, I was glad that that happened. And I thought on the day that, you know, Hugh had kind of had time to reflect and was in a really good space, which I think made Helen, which made Helen better. Matt was great in those scenes, he was awesome.

Jace I mean, they were good friends. But as Hugh says, there wasn’t a grand passion between them, which goes along with what you’re saying about Helen feeling that she loved him, but she wasn’t in love with him. I mean, is that what she feels for James, then? A passion that’s both physical and emotional, rather than sort of a marriage of convenience or between friends?

Rachel Very much so. I don’t think she thought the feelings that she had for James were possible. I don’t think they were…she wasn’t aware of them, and he’d been with her since she was a child. They never had any kind of, well, child, I say, child, young person, teenagers or whatever they were. And as kids, they never had any kind of romantic exploration of their relationship. They just kind of fell together because they were mates and from the same town, you know, they got a lot in common. And so she never question that it was, you know, it was fine, it was fun. And then James came on the scene and she felt all these feelings that she didn’t know were even possible. Then she looks back at that relationship and goes, ‘OK, I don’t think something there’s right.’ And so absolutely not the same as it was with, Hugh, no. And I think that’s a bit scary as well. You know, when you really feel a kind of tsunami of emotions for someone that’s incredibly vulnerable. And as we know, Helen’s a bit of a coper. You know, she spins plates, she takes control, she’s quite direct. And I don’t know if vulnerable is necessarily something that’s comfortable for her.

Jace James throws the match and intentionally misses the ball that Hugh has pitched. What does Helen make of this moment and what prompts her to tell James here that she loves him?

Rachel She…I feel like it’s a knowing, it’s a knowing feeling, like a knowing smile, that’s her reaction to this. Like a kind of, ‘Of course, he was going to do that because that’s who he is,’ you know. And that’s the bit that made her fall in love with him, his care and compassion for, not just the animals, but the land and the people, you know. And he obviously, he’s adopted into Yorkshire. He’s not, you know, he’s not a Yorkshireman, and she’s never seen that before of somebody that has sort of come into this, this world of Darrowby taken to it like a duck to water, but also really cares. And you know, the way that he cares about the animals and sort of puts himself second alot is the reasons that she that she fell for him in the first place. So it just cements everything that she felt. And so to tell him that she loved him in that moment feels absolutely right because it’s all the reasons that she fell for him in the first place, in one, in one action.

Jace Before this next question, let’s hear a word from our sponsors…

Jace So we’re going to move now into episode six, which begins with Helen and James going to the cinema, where we see Pathé newsreel footage of Chamberlain talking about Hitler, which is moving us closer to the start of World War II. Helen is sort of typically pragmatic here. ‘It’ll get sorted,’ she says, trying to reassure either herself, or James, or both of them. Does that moment sort of sum up Helen — that she’s sort of optimistically pragmatic, that she’s matter of fact, but always sort of hoping for a good outcome?

Rachel Oh, she’s an eternal optimist. She’s definitely a glass half-full girl, isn’t she? I think that’s just having a bit of a tough upbringing and sort of having to do that as a way of coping. So yes, that sums it up. Absolutely. ‘It’ll get sorted. ‘And I think it reminds us of where we were at that time, there was limited information. No one really knew. She didn’t understand it that much, as not many people did, at that time. And so although now we can, you know, that ‘Oh, it’ll get sorted,’ might seem naive, I think it was also the fact that she didn’t know a whole lot about that at that time. And so it was just her job in that moment was to reassure James, because she could see that he was worried.

Jace Is there a sense that this tranquility in the Dales, the sense of promise that James and Helen have is sort of tinged with tragedy because we know at home, what’s coming next?

Rachel I mean, is it, I think as a viewer, as a viewer, it’s possibly obviously different. We are to feel that. Yeah, we absolutely know, not kind of, almost ominous feeling that we had at the end of the series where you know what’s looming and you know, it’s big and you’re not quite sure how it’s going to play out. I think for the villagers, for Helen, for James, particularly Helen, James and Tristan, the younger ones, you know, I think there’s a sort of ‘OK, yeah, this is this could be difficult, but we’ll obviously be OK and get through it.’ There’s that sense of, ‘We’ll be OK, though, won’t we?’ you know that I guess that grit,that Northern Grit, that, ‘Doesn’t matter what happens. Stiff upper lip, we’ll be alright,’ you know, and especially James and Helen feel that I think they said it many times. They feel as long as they have each other, everything’s going to be OK. So I don’t think they’re even considering the enormity of it at the point at the end of the series.

Jace No. Helen is surprised to learn, as was I, that James was always trying to bunk off from school when he was Jenny’s age, figuring that he was a goody-two shoes. I mean, does Helen believe that she has James all figured out at this point that there are no surprises in store for her, she knows who this guy is?

Rachel I think she thinks that, yeah. Whether that’s right, we’re yet to see, but I think at this point, she certainly trusts him a great deal. She trusts what he says. He’s a man of his word. She likes what he’s all about. She likes that he’s sensible. So yeah, I think at this point, she would say she knows everything about him. That was a bit of a curveball, wasn’t it? I didn’t expect that at all, especially when you think about them both, I think Helen was probably, on paper, would have been the one that would be bunking off school or getting into trouble a little bit or whatever. And so I was surprised to learn about James.

Jace How has the death of Helen’s mother shaped her own beliefs? Their understanding of marriage? Has it colored her expectations in some way?

Rachel I think the death of her mother has certainly changed her as a girl, the woman, in terms of she probably understands the transience of it all. So I think she understands that you’re to do what you want and you’re to live the life that you want and be bold enough to do that, because it doesn’t last forever. And I think those kind of lessons only come, to a young person in particular, when you had something tough like that happened, and I’m speaking for myself at this point, I said this in the audition process, but I lost my dad when I was very young and and I think I had that understanding that things don’t last forever and that, you know, you’re to do things you have to try your best and follow the path that you feel you is set out for you, even if it’s scary because it’s over quickly. And I had a really healthy understanding of that from a young age. And I think she does, too. So hence, the walking out in the wedding. Big thing to do. Many people wouldn’t have done that, but she knows that it’s a, you know, you get one shot at this. And so it shaped her in that way. In terms of marriage, it was that, you know, ‘till death do us part,’ and that’s what happened. So I don’t necessarily think it’s changed her opinion of marriage, really, other than, you know, you look after each, as Richard Alderson looked after her mum in the end. So I don’t think so, really.

Jace I mean, James does have a tendency, as both Helen and Siegfried say, to sort of overthink things to see catastrophe around every corner. I mean, does Helen truly believe changing his mindset is as simple as sort of, ‘Don’t overthink, worry less’?

Rachel You know, what does she think it’s as simple to change his mindset? No. Does she think it’s as simple to do that? Yes. So, she thinks it’s a choice. She knows it’s a choice. She knows it’s a choice, she knows it is a choice. You make a choice in the morning to be happy or sad. You make a choice in the morning to overthink that decision that you’re going to make and let it ruin your day or just follow your heart and do it, and she’s that kind of girl. So she knows it’s that simple because at times in her life she’s had to. Does she think it’s that easy for James? Absolutely not, no.  And I don’t think for a second she thinks he’s going to do it.

Jace But for all this, talk about sort of overthinking James, then just sort of blurts out that he wants to marry her, and Helen tells him to stop the car. What is Helen’s immediate reaction to this, this sort of moment of actual spontaneity?

Rachel Well, shock at first. I don’t think for a second she was expecting that in that moment, in that way, on that day at all, I don’t think James was. But when it happens., again, it’s like a following her heart thing that she does so well, and so with the, ‘Would you just stop the car? I need to take a moment,’ is actually what she’s doing. And she just needs a little second on her own. It’s much sooner than she anticipated. It’s not in the way she anticipated, but it’s happened. And so how are we going to, how do we feel about this? So I think it’s just a little recalibration for a minute. And ultimately, she loves him very much, and she’s never going to do or say anything other than, ‘Yes, this is what I want too,’ which is obviously what happens.

Jace I mean, she tells him, ‘I’m not afraid either,’ and then they kiss in one of the most beautiful and romantic scenes on television that I’ve ever seen.

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James Helen – I’m fine with you not being ready.

Helen I just… I just need a moment…

James But I’m not afraid to say it.

Helen Say what?

James I want to spend the rest of my life with you. Here, in the Dales.

Helen I’m not afraid either.

James You’re not?!

Helen No.

Jace What did you make of the scene when you first read the script for episode six? And what was it like filming it in front of this, this insanely gorgeous vista?

Rachel Oh, thank you very much. Yeah, we were so pleased with that. And yeah, when we first read the script, it’s funny because whoever reads them first, Nick or I, it just depending on, you know, who’s got the time to read it first. We’d always, like, I’d get a text and he’d be like, ‘Episode six!!!!,’ and then loads of exclamation marks. And so we both read it and we were like, ‘This is really beautiful. It could be, you know, we just need to find the beats and find the moment.’ So we always try and work together on doing that. And again, one of the beautiful things about Ben Vanstone’s writing is just, it’s just so rich in its simplicity and truth every time. It was never what was being said. It was what isn’t being said. And there were so many lovely moments that we found in the silence and in the, just looking at each other in the field and how they looked at each other in the car when they weren’t speaking. And those were the things that we were kind of interested in or we wanted everybody to feel right. And then. We shot that separately. So in the car was shot on an entirely different day, week to to the kiss. So the car stuff, gorgeous day. Absolutely beautiful. I think one of the hottest days of the year. Lovely. And then on the day of the kiss, it’d been kind of miserable and cold. And then it came to the point of shooting it. And Andy Hayes, the director, our brilliant director, just said he was cloud watching intently. And he said, ‘If we can get it, if we can get this scene when the clouds part. No pressure. But that’s what we need.’ So we kind of did it. We did it as the clouds parted and I think we only had a couple of passes on each of us. But it was great because you can’t help but feel it in that moment because it’s obviously overlooking the undulating countryside, the Dales look magnificent come rain sleet or shine. But even, you know, when the clouds parted and it became bright, you can’t help but feel that it’s very romantic and lovely. And actually, even some of the crew sort of had a bit of a tear. And so it was lovely, so we all felt very happy with that.

Jace Episode six features several outstanding moments, including James birthing Candy’s foal, a really, really stressful scene that pushes James to his limit when he discovers that her uterus is twisted. What does Candy mean to Helen and Jenny, and to Richard?

Rachel Yeah, that was very emotional to shoot because obviously Candy was Helen’s mum’s horse. So when she was in foal, that was a very exciting time and we felt like it was the next, you know, ‘It’s almost like she’s going to live on. This is so exciting. Very important. And even when we found out she was in foal, that was a that was emotional for the family. And then to find out that she’s in danger in that moment is absolutely heartbreaking for all of us because when we look at Candy, we see all the memories about mum. We see what was on the back of the horse. We see our mum riding the horse. We see we can’t just see Candy. It’s the whole family picture.’ So it means so much more than any one of us were saying in that scene, and anyone has said. So it was super important, and that’s why when, you know, when James manages to brilliantly, save the day, Helen, can’t help but sort of dash over and throw her arms around him, because it’s really the outpouring of relief more than anything.

Jace I mean, even Richard has that moment of sort of catharsis. And he expresses sort of genuine emotion once they survive the labor. Do you see Richard as sort of being a product of his time and circumstance that he would be stoic even in the face of grief, but that this moment could allow him to express himself more fully?

Rachel Absolutely. Yeah. You put that so well, that’s exactly right. He’s yeah, he’s a Dales farmer! You know, and a man of a certain age and especially at that time, you know, he’s got no need for emotion. I think they would be woeful to him. And he’s, you know, he’s absolutely got to get on with it. Sometimes it’s tough. And that’s the way it is. Does not express emotion well. I think it was done so beautifully. Nick and Tony did the scene very well with the proposal, where, nobody was really saying anything, they were just drinking a lot of whiskey and that’s how they came through that emotion. And so, yeah, in this moment, he cracks a bit and you see you see him, you see the human bit of him, but he very quickly pulls it back and he does that so well.

Jace Jenny has aged in season two. She’s more headstrong and independent, and she was last season. How is Helen’s relationship with Jenny challenged by her sister growing up, or with what might lie ahead for Helen and James?

Rachel Well, firstly, I wish she’d stop growing because she’s almost the same size as me already, and I’m like, We’re going to have to do every scene that she’s in, she needs to be sitting down if she keeps getting taller, because it’s not OK, she’s like 13. Imogen, who plays Jenny, is absolutely brilliant, and the relationship dynamic in season two between Jenny and Helen is the bit that I’ve loved the most because you’ve seen it kind of evolve from parental almost headlands played a parental role, and in Jenny’s life since her mum died, and it’s felt…I don’t want to say a burden because she’s done it willingly and she wanted to, but she’s felt the pressures of that, the weight of that at times. She’s made certain decisions based on what was going on at home, and that’s fine. But it’s been amazing in this series to kind of see them go back to siblings and, you know, sharing —  now Jenny’s a little bit older, understanding things a little bit more — kind of sharing the way of things. And obviously, the thing that springs to mind is the breakfast after the proposal. Jenny Jenny is rushing around making breakfast, and Helen can’t quite get a head around what’s happening, but she knows it’s something very nice. And yeah, that’s her stepping into that role so that, I was very excited to sort of explore that a bit more, even when she was going on a date with James. Jenny was rushing up behind to sort of getting bits of straw out of her hair so that although the siblings, they’re friends as well.

Jace No, I love their relationship, especially this season, and yeah, they definitely have moved from, you know, surrogate mother-daughter, to sisters, to, not quite equals, but if it were Jenny’s choice, they would be. But there is this kind of friendship blossoming between these two sisters that is really beautiful to watch.

Rachel It is. I felt that as well. And I think there’s a really lovely scene where they’re kind of discussing James at one point. And I think Jenny says, ‘Oh, you know, he’s kind of good lookin’, isn’t he?’ They have like a bit of a bit of a joke between them, and that was a sign of the age that she’s out, that they can share, you know, a different level now, and it’s just lovely and they kind of both share those eyerolls at Dad, at times, you know? ‘Well, that’s just dad being dad,’ or whatever, and that’s super nice. And you know, it’s something that if we’re, you know, when we do more that hopefully we explore that even further because I think that Jenny could be a really good friend to Helen and vice versa, and I think that they’ll need each other. So I hope that’s nurtured even more.

Jace James’s actual proposal shows that he’s capable of both romance and grand gestures, and he offers Helen her mum’s engagement ring.

CLIP

James Is that – have you got something on the back of your dress? Who said I couldn’t do romantic gestures?

Helen Get up you daft beggar – Is that… is that me mams?

James It is.

Jace What is this moment show Helen about her now-fiancé?

Rachel Oh, God. I think in that moment, he’s everything that she wanted him to be. He’s everything that she wanted and like I’ve said before with Hugh. Well, there’s nothing wrong with Hugh. He was great. But those tiny moments of care, those things that James does so well. You know, the thought that he’s not obviously going to go out and get a ring or get a ring from anywhere else that he would accept Joan, the ring from Helen’s mum, Joan, and that means so much. I know there was a line about how he did offer it to Hugh, but Hugh obviously wanted to put a big diamond on her finger and stuff. And those gestures, they just don’t, they don’t mean as much to Helen. And actually, when I read that scene, it wasn’t written, it wasn’t emotional at all, and I couldn’t read it and learn it without crying. And I just said to her, I said to Andy, ‘I’m going to have to, I keep really having to swallow back the emotions on this,’ He was like, ‘Great, just go with it,’ because that was a real, a real moment. We’re passing something on that would stay on on Helen’s finger for the rest of her days, hopefully. And it was. I just found it so emotional and beautiful, and it was was perfect. So, yeah, she was very, very once again very grateful for him I think.

Jace There is a look in that scene that passes between Helen and her dad. What’s unspoken in that look between them?

Rachel Oh, yeah, that was so much, wasn’t there? Yeah, that was really that was really emotional again. It was, it was. It was a nod about the mum’s ring. It was an understanding that she’s going to marry him and she’ll be leaving. It was a, ‘Everything’s OK. Don’t worry about me.’ There was so much packed into that one, nod to each other. Because she’s concerned about all that, she’s worried about all that, you know, she has a conversation with James in this series about what that will mean when she leaves Heston Grange. So that was just Richard saying, ‘Just enjoy this and worry about us’. But it’s obviously easier said than done for Helen.

Jace Given Helen’s sense of independence and with Jenny growing up and being able to take on more responsibility on the farm, how do you see Helen fitting into the role of Mrs. Herriot when she is married? Is there a tug-of-swar of sorts that will happen between what might be expected of her as a vet’s wife and what’s expected of her as a farmer?

Rachel And then the truth of who she is will be somewhere in the middle, yes, I think that’s absolutely right. She’s concerned about what happens now, I think and and I think it’s really relative, and I think I think it’s something that every couple or family sort of dynamic can relate to, really, that when the chips are down and you know, as much as you want to share your life and spend your life with that person, there are also logistics that have to come into that. ‘OK, where are we going to live? OK, where? What does this mean for me?’ She knows James is going to continue being a vet, of course, but what does that mean for her? Where will she live? Will she still work on the farm? What will it mean for her as a wife there? What will her role in Skeldale House be? And I really think they’re all really valid concerns that that she has really. And although I think from an audience perspective, they might think that they’ve got together and it’s great and they’re going to be happily ever after. But I think most people know that when you’re married, that’s when the work really starts. So. I think that they will have to navigate some, some adjustments and hurdles. But I have faith that they will, as long as they communicate.

Jace There’s one episode of All Creatures left in this series. What should viewers expect to find in the final episode of the series? What sort of tone does it offer? Is that one of comfort and joy, or heartbreak?

Rachel it’s one of comfort and joy. I mean, I actually think that it has a little bit of everything, really. It takes you on a real journey, as you know, Ben’s writing usually does. You can be, you know, really quite emotional in one moment, and then the next minute, be laughing again, and that’s what’s so beautiful about the books and about our adaptation, I think. You feel like you experience it all, which is life, isn’t it? You know, we’re here to experience it all and feel it all. And I think that that’s what the series does so well. And at the heart of it, it’s about love, but love for each other, love for the animals, love for the community. And that’s very relevant now.

Jace Very relevant right now. Rachel Stenton, thank you so very much.

Rachel Thank you very much. It was great.

Jace As the second season of All Creatures Great and Small comes to a close, it’s only fair we hear from the amiable veterinarian at the heart of it all.

CLIP

Mrs. Hall Your mum must be upset you’re not back for Christmas.

James Oh they’ve got Uncle Alf and kids coming over. I’m sure she’ll be fine.

Mrs. Hall Oh James. Your mother won’t be ‘fine’. Which is why she’s got people coming to stay, take her mind off it.

Jace James Herriot himself, Nicholas Ralph comes back to the podcast on February 20th.

MASTERPIECE Studio is hosted by me, Jace Lacob and produced by Nick Andersen. Elisehba Ittoop is our editor. The executive producer of MASTERPIECE is Susanne Simpson.