Financial Times Sets Up Mastodon Server, Realizes Laws Exist (Which It Was Already Subject To), Pulls Down Mastodon Server
from the huh? dept
Here’s a weird one. With the rapid pickup of Mastodon and other ActivityPub-powered federated social media, there has been some movement among those in the media to make better use of the platform themselves. For example, most recently, the German news giant Heise announced it was setting up its own Mastodon server, where it will serve up its own content, and also offer accounts to any of the company’s employees, should they choose to use them. Medium, the publication tool, has similarly set up its own Mastodon server as well. At some point, Techdirt is going to do that as well, though we’ve been waiting while a bunch of new developments and platforms are being built before committing to a specific plan.
However, recently, the Financial Times posted a very bizarre article in which it talks about how it had set up a Mastodon server for its FT Alphaville back in November, but has now decided to shut it down because, according to the headline “it was awful.” What’s kinda bizarre is that they clearly set it up without much thought, and admitted as much in their kickoff blog post, admitting they didn’t quite know what to do with it, and asking people if they had any ideas. They also clearly recognized that there are some potential liability questions about running your own social media platform, because they described it this way (note the strikethrough, which is in the original):
If you have a smart idea about how we could use our newfound
moderation liabilityplatform, please let us know.
Which is kinda why the reasoning for shutting down the platform… is somewhat incomprehensible. They basically don’t talk about any of the problems with actually running Mastodon. They outline all of the stupid policies in place (mostly in the UK) that make it scary to run a social media network. The “awfulness” seemed to have nothing to do with running the server, and a lot to do with how the UK (and other parts of the world) have really dreadful laws that suck if you want to setup a site that hosts third-party speech.
If anything, the decision to shut it down is a primary lesson in how important Section 230 is if we want social media to survive (and allow for smaller competitors to exist). While they say that running the Mastodon server was “more hassle than it’s worth,” what they really seem to mean is that the UK laws, both existing and those on the way, make it ridiculously burdensome to do this:
The legal side is all that again times a thousand. Take, for instance, the UK Investigatory Powers Act 2016. Diligent people have spent years figuring out how its imprecise wordings apply to media organisations. Do these same conclusions hold for a sort-of-but-not-really decentralised silo of user generated content? Dunno. The only place to find out for sure would be in court, and we’d really rather not.
Seems like the kinda thing that, I don’t know, a publication like the FT might have spoken out about in the years and months prior to the Investigatory Powers Act coming into effect?
Then there’s the defamation liability thing. Which, you know, is a big part of why Section 230 is so important in the US. This one paragraph alone should make it clear why the UK will never become a social media powerhouse:
Do Mastodon server owners wear any responsibility for their users’ defamations? It’s unlikely but, because libel involves judges, not impossible. Again, the value in finding out is outweighed by the cost of finding out.
They name some other laws as well:
What about GDPR? Digital Millennium Copyright Act takedowns? Electronic Commerce Regulations? CAN-SPAM? FTAV treats user data with a combination of disinterest and uninterest, but that’s not enough to guarantee compliance with all relevant global laws and regulations.
And laws to come:
And, look, it’s absolutely true that there are legal risks to running a Mastodon instance. EFF has put up a really fantastic legal primer for anyone looking to set up their own Mastodon server. And there are, certainly, some technical and logistical issues in doing it as well. And, basically all that says is that you shouldn’t set up a server on a whim.
But, what this really seems to demonstrate is the importance of good regulations like Section 230 that help make it possible for anyone to set up just such a server, as well as the horrific nature of UK laws like the Investigatory Powers Act and the upcoming Online Safety Bill, and how they make it next to impossible for there to ever be a UK-created social media platform.
But, in some ways, it’s even dumber, because… most of these laws already apply to FT and its website, because the FT… allows comments. Anyone who allows comments on their website already has a kind of social media offering already. And, indeed, some people raised that very point in the comments on this story.
![](https://cdn.statically.io/img/i0.wp.com/www.techdirt.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/image-69.png?resize=580%2C299&ssl=1)
The response by Bryce Elder… doesn’t make much sense. Yes, managing comments and the like can be somewhat painful and expensive, but that doesn’t respond to the simple point that all of the same legal concerns put forth as reasons to take down the Mastodon server… also apply to the comments. So why name all of those laws as making it “awful,” when your publication has already figured out how to deal with those same laws.
It really seems like the reality was that Bryce just didn’t want to run the Mastodon server any more, and rather than just say “I didn’t want to do this any more,” he decided to falsely claim “it was awful.” Yeah, maybe some UK laws are awful, and we can talk about that. But it’s not running a Mastodon server that’s awful.
Filed Under: alphaville, intermediary liability, investigatory powers bill, mastodon, online safety bill, section 230
Companies: financial times
Comments on “Financial Times Sets Up Mastodon Server, Realizes Laws Exist (Which It Was Already Subject To), Pulls Down Mastodon Server”
My reading is that ‘below-the-line’ comments made on newspaper sites are exempt from the scope of the Online Safety Bill (see the Bill’s Schedule 1, Section 4 ‘Limited functionality services’, ‘posting comments or reviews relating to provider content’). This exemption applies, I think, even when such provider content and below-the-line commentary are carried online. I stress this is my view only; case law and consensus are a long way off as yet.
In a sense, it makes FT’s abandonment of its Mastodon adventure even more puzzling, but it would depend crucially on whether a Mastodon application is seen as something being run by a ‘recognised news publisher’ or an in-scope ‘platform’. All a bit muddy, and I can see why the FT felt it was maybe a bit too soon to test the water.
Re:
This “exemption” can be revoked at any time by the Digital Minister. It says so in the bill.
Re: Re:
Well that if they even get the bill up and running, Ofcom is likely to be super underfunded and unable to enforce 90% of the bill.
Re: Re: Re:
The problem with underfunded enforcement agencies is that they then become ripe for abuse. Both because they will only bother going against easy targets that aren’t in a position to fight back, and because they’re more easy to persuade on which targets to go after by their political masters by dangling budget information in front of them.
Partial enforcement can always be weaponized.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
tl;dr: Mike is upset that a proper news organization (ie, not a tiny niche blog) tried Mastodon, realized what trash it is, and informed us.
Re:
Wrong….But you would have known that if you had reading skills. The laws in the UK are trash. Of course I’m wasting rehashing the article to a disingenuous asshole.
Re:
Flagged for not having the courage to admit that he’s either JhonBoi, Koby, restless, Chozen, or some other waste of oxygen.
sumgai
Re:
That’s like saying you used word to write a novel, and word is trash because the novel was a complete flop.
Re:
How do you people always seem to come up with a summary of the words in front of you that don’t match what everyone else can read?
Re:
Speaking of “didn’t read,” if what you wrote was accurate, then at any point in the article, they could have said “Mastodon is trash and not worth it.” But… they didn’t.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Awful But Fun!
Setting up a Mastadon server is so trendy! I hear there now more Mastadon instances than there are current users!
Re: Re:
And a lot of them support queer rights, unlike a significantly not-zero number of people whose asses you and your fellow trolls deem fit to kiss.
Incidentally, Koby, yes or no: Do you believe the government should have the legal right to compel any privately owned interactive web service into hosting legally protected speech that the owners/operators of said service don’t want to host?
Re: Re:
2.7 million active fediverse users in the last month.
23k servers
So, uh. No.
Re: Re: Re: Republican Math
According to republicans, 23 > 2.7, therefore, more servers than users.
Re: Re: Re:
Up from a max of 2.5 million in January! Or 1.8 million if you really want to be that guy.
So, who said it wasn’t growing and not happening again…?
Re:
Bryce was just totally scared to say he didn’t like the trash software due to the threat of Big Mastodon.
i mean, let’s face it, how many people have seen a small mastodon?
Discouragement
Maybe that is the purpose of the FT article.
Thanks for your investigation. I avoid FT.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
It was already a failed social experiment. Add another one to the trash pile.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re:
Just add vaporcare to all of the vaporware. Its already a buzzword.
I’m not so sure a few politicians can distinguish between being heckled and being “harassed”.
Anyone notice
That the Gov. Never wants a Forum, to have discussions or complaints, or location where Opinion and Facts and fantasy can be shared and Expressed, NOR ANSWERED?
Re:
Would it be interesting to have a site to POST bills being voted on. And have Public OPINION? AND PUBLIC VOTES?
Unfortunately, in the case of the Online Safety Bill, too many are beating the think of the children drum.
No-one is asking ‘but what about the adults?’ – the unintended consequences will be many, varied and thoroughly exploited.
Re:
Forget the adults for now,how the hell is creating a dystopia supposed to help the children?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Stop trying to make mastodon happen.
….it’s never going to happen. (active users are already down a lot)
Re:
So what?
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re:
so, it’s dead, Jim.
Re: Re: Re:
No, it isn’t. Besides, even if it never reaches the popularity level of Twitter, it’s not like a lot of the people who enjoy using Masto will ever give a shit. Are you mad because you signed up for Gab only to find out that the Fediverse has largely defederated Gab to the point of irrelevance?
Re: Re: Re:
Add yet another example of your illiteracy to the list!
~1.8 million active users means it’s…[checks notes]…not dead.
Re:
Mastodon is one of many alternatives to Twitter, some will go there, some will go elsewhere, nobody decent will pay Elon money for what used to be free for a less valuable service.,
The lesson to take away here is that most people have always had alternative services to use and will use them instead of trying to force services they no longer wish to use to host them.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
Re: Re:
…except none of that turns out to be true, actually.
The swell of Mastodon is basically illusory (and over) but journalists and Masnick are gonna take another few months to stop pushing it cuz theyreally hate Musk.
Re: Re: Re:
The swell of Mastodon is basically real but people like Bennett are gonna take another few months to stop lying about it cuz they really hate facts and hope that Musk will one day pat him on the back.
FTFY
Re: Re: Re:
Which part of what they said isn’t true—the “Mastodon is one of many alternatives to Twitter” bit, the “some will go there, some will go elsewhere” bit, the “nobody decent will pay Elon money for what used to be free for a less valuable service” bit, and/or the “most people have always had alternative services to use and will use them instead of trying to force services they no longer wish to use to host them” bit?
Re: Re: Re:
For someone who claims to not actually like Musk you really piss on your own anal plug every single time his fee-fees get briefly hurt.
It isn't necessary for every news organization to host their own Mastatdon server
They could join forces and have a professionally setup, maintained and moderated Mastatdon presence. Like an Associated Press or UPI. Only recognized news organizations could sign on that server.
Re:
Doubt this would be an amazing idea, considering the main “come here if you’re a journalist” server has undergone some strong defederation for defending users on it’s server “just asking questions” about trans people.
I would argue that while the same broad legal concerns apply to both their own comment sections and their mastodon server, the scope and available tools to deal with those concerns are quite different.
Mastodon servers, at their core, are intended to be interoperable with other servers… which includes having content from those other servers appear in your own server. While that function can be turned off, doing so would largely defeat the purpose of using a mastodon server as opposed to a comment section on your own website.
Who knows, really, what your liability is for content which is available to people within your server, but not actually located on it or associated with it. Is it worth going to court over it? Probably not.
It also limits the options they have available to moderate. With their own server, they can put into place any number of systems to identify content they do not want before it becomes available (how well those systems might work is another question, of course). They can’t do that with anyone else’s, again asking more questions about how quickly they need to respond to content located somewhere else.
It also just adds extra dimensions of work to the moderation. Now the question of “delete the content or ban the user” has become “delete the content or ban the user or ban the server.”
Section 230 has largely been implemented through bi-lateral treaties that the US signs with other countries, but perhaps states often feel that they do not need to be obligated to those treaties.
This comment has been flagged by the community. Click here to show it.
The most awaited product in the lending market: Payroll Financing
Introducing for the first time in India a payroll financing solution that provides a line of credit to run payrolls on time for employees at the end of each month. Payroll financing is a type of lending service through which businesses can get capital in order to process their payrolls. 1 Click Capital’s Payroll Financing is an industry-first, low-cost, unsecured, short-term funding solution that assists corporates in meeting their payroll obligations on time regularly.
Can a Mastodon dev use Englands anti-defamation laws against the FT?
England is known to be a great place to sue someone else for slander. Given that, could anyone who has contributed to the development of Mastodon sue the FT for defamation?
Re:
Successfully sue? No.
Re:
I hope you’re not suggesting that anyone do this.
Maybe you’re aware that a defamation suit wouldn’t work in the US, and I think you’d be hardpressed to find a country with a defamation law more protective of free speech. And where’s the demonstrable harm to the developers of Mastodon?
Re:
FT didn’t even slander Mastodon or Activitypub.
They just realized that despite being able to run a comments section, a Mastodon Instance was probably too much for them, partly due to shitty laws.