On “Birds Don’t Sing,” the first new song from the Clipse since 2009, brothers Terrence “Pusha T” Thornton and Gene “Malice” Thornton come to grips with the deaths of their parents, juggling fond memories of seeking encouragement with the gutting concerns of the bereaved: “Told you I was going to Turks for Thanksgiving / I heard what I wanted to hear but didn’t listen.”
It’s heavy stuff from two rappers beloved for drug-dealer parables. Blessed with an arsenal of delightfully odd Neptunes beats, the Clipse spent the aughts making deviously catchy music about living with the spoils of dark decisions, like “Virginia”: “Lost it all, from lives to love / But my faith and my money helped me rise above.” Snarling lyrical workouts “Grindin’” and “Cot Damn” captured the imaginations of hip-hop heads, and airtight guest spots on R&B and pop singles showcased further versatility. But, as the duo explained on a call last week, the stigma of rapping about cocaine proved difficult to shake. Pusha and Malice’s run was also hampered by forces outside their control: Elektra Records’s shelved their 1999 debut album Exclusive Audio Footage, and they faced a three-year struggle to get off Jive Records, trampling what could’ve been a longer streak of “Hot 100” placements. The prodigious freestyles they released instead would introduce them to a growing audience of internet rap admirers, yet by 2010, the weight of remorse about promoting a hustler’s lifestyle led Malice to quit the group and focus on his faith. Pusha soldiered on, releasing acclaimed solo work, battling mainstream hip-hop heavyweights like Drake and Lil Wayne, and consistently nudging his brother about collaborating again.
Sporadic Clipse revivals achieved through guest features over the last 15 years treated yearning fans to a flicker of the vengeful fire of 2002’s Lord Willin’, 2006’s Hell Hath No Fury, and the We Got It 4 Cheap mixtapes. But “Birds” is special not just because it peruses new avenues of expression but because it heralds a new album, their first since 2009’s Til the Casket Drops, produced entirely by Pharrell. The duo has returned on their own terms, and they speak about the new music with the zeal of clergymen. As Malice says about the forthcoming reunion record, “Everything is ordained and coming at the right time.”
Talk about the genesis of “Birds Don’t Sing,” one of your most personal records ever.
Pusha T: Man, a lot of times songs are built from conversation. This particular day, me and Pharrell were speaking about the passing of our mom. Gene, you on here?
Malice: Yeah, I’m here. You the one late. [Laughs.]
P: Pharrell’s dad was going through dialysis, and I was expressing how I felt guilty about always pushing our mom in a healthy direction in her last years when she was going through dialysis. I was like, Damn, man. My mom was really ready to go. She was doing this shit every Monday, Wednesday, Friday. She was coming to meet us and see the baby, but at the end of the day, she was over diabetes. Gene was like, “You think the birds are singing, but they’re really screeching in pain.” I don’t know where he got that from.
M: It holds true to the Maya Angelou classic I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings. That’s how it hit me. It’s a beautiful song, but it’s just out of so much pain and suffering. You sing it trying to find the beauty in everything. My parents were givers, whether it was love or wisdom or finances. Even with their passing, I still see them giving — giving with this record, the legacy they left that we get to share with the entire world. Anyone who’s lost someone will be able to relate.
Malice, you rap about seeking their blessing to return to music. What kind of soul searching did it take?
M: If you notice in the song, Pusha’s ode is more to our mom, and mine is to my dad. This is just the way that we decided to do it. People know about the Clipse and me having the convictions I had and departing from the group. Every morning, my dad and I talked about life, God, and the Bible. I’d discuss my personal missteps in the beginning with Clipse. My dad was instrumental in my decision-making. I asked him what he thought about me rapping again, and he said, “You still have to make a living. You still have to take care of your family. I understand where you’re coming from, but I think you’ve been too hard on yourself.” And that meant so much to me because over the years, the Clipse years, our family really went through a lot. For him to give me his blessing, him being a deacon in the church and loving God, I had to open my eyes and reevaluate.
It brings to mind one of many favorite Scriptures. “The gifts … of God are irrevocable.” He don’t take it back, no matter how you mishandle it. When He says it’s yours, it’s yours. I truly believe my gift and my calling are being able to talk and to reach people. To be back with my brother and to put our thoughts and our creativity together, having more wisdom and a better perspective, I just can’t think of anything better. It’s like the perfect storm.
Is there unfinished business for this group? ’99 to ’09 was a wild ride with a lot of promise, but it didn’t always go in the direction you or your fans wanted. Is there a plan now, or are you seeing where this goes?
M: I’m a spectator, man. I’m watching this thing unfold beautifully and better than it ever could have been planned. During my departure, watching the things that my brother has accomplished, I marvel at the fact that he hasn’t become jaded with this game and at his tenacity and his level of competition in dealing with these suckers. I can’t believe he’s still enthused about it. And I feed off of that energy.
What does the next year look like?
P: The next year is going to be filled with appearances, touring, and a rap album of the year.
M: Bang.
Talk about the new album. We’ve been waiting so long …
P: I think the album shows the supreme maturation of a rap duo. I think this is where you get the difference between taste and filler. This music is curated. This is a high taste-level piece of work. You can only have that level of taste when you have the fundamentals down to a science. I think it’s been definitely missing. Then there’s the competitive aspect.
M: This is smart basketball. It’s fundamentals. And not only that, it’s authenticity. It’s what rap should look like if you’re real about your craft, real about your experience, real about your storytelling. It’s bringing the fans along to see the growth, not trying to fit in or fabricate. It just seems like in other genres of music, they have the luxury of growing. For some reason, we act like we’re not supposed to evolve. This is what the true evolution of the Clipse looks like. It’s just good to be able to show that and still have high-level raps.
Can you talk about collaborators?
P: Outside of Pharrell producing everything, I don’t want to say who the features are.
You’ve said a lot!
P: Pharrell producing everything is also an ode to the type of music and the type of albums we want to make. We still want to make full bodies of work. These are movies, man. These aren’t just songs. This isn’t just a collection of joints we went in and banged out. This is tedious —
M: — This is cohesive material —
P: — This is arguing. This is a problem. These are people passionate about their opinions and making sure that everybody’s on their A-game. Listen, I can be mad at the engineer, you know what I’m saying? Even he has to be on point. I think that’s the level of meticulousness that a Clipse fan looks for.
Did you get to work with Chad Hugo at all?
P: No, we didn’t.
Can you speak on his lawsuit?
P: I’m not even that familiar with it.
Are you in the Lego Pharrell movie?
P: I think so. I haven’t seen it yet though.
Recently I watched footage of Something in the Water 2022, where Justin Timberlake dapped you up. I don’t think we ever found out how things shook out between you and him after the saga with Pharrell, who refused to work on Future Sex/Love Sounds as leverage to get Clipse off Jive Records.
P: We never had a problem with Justin.
We just hadn’t seen you all in the same room for a long time.
P: We were on the shelf for four years. What do you mean? We weren’t in a room with anybody.
Back in the day, it was difficult to get a sense of what your base was. The mixtape circuit was digitizing much faster than the means to track audiences, and you were making songs with everyone from Timberlake and the Backstreet Boys to Freeway and Philly’s Most Wanted. Is this just what happens when you run with the Neptunes?
M: It was a pleasant surprise. It wasn’t so much that we didn’t know who our fan base was. It was an added bonus of people we didn’t expect. We were looking at the street but crossed over to performing at colleges, and who was coming out to the shows was the hippie college kids loving the Clipse. We grabbed all ears.
P: We went through all the “cocaine rap” complaints, the stigma of, “All they talk about is coke.” You get tired of it. Then you realize the people who only look at it that way aren’t even listening to the music correctly. You can’t even take their opinion as anything. I believe that through all of the years, if that’s what your gripe is, then you are not a Clipse fan and you don’t listen to music well at all.
M: There’s no way that you can listen to that level of storytelling and experience and just walk away just saying “That’s coke rap.”
P: It’s a very cheap way of describing it.
M: We just told our story. It was the absolute truth. You take away from it what you want to take from it, but if you just want to say that it’s just crack rap, then you can’t even assess what’s really being said or what’s going on.
Your album titles have religious themes: Lord Willin’, Hell Hath No Fury, Til the Casket Drops. I feel like we can almost telegraph the No Malice era before it happened. Do you see faith always having had a role in the Clipse’s music?
M: You can set your watch to it from the very beginning. Exclusive Audio Footage started off with a prayer. “And if these raps hurt more than they help, Lord forgive us.” We had Jesus in the car with us on Lord Willin’. As far as my rap style, anytime I would hear a preacher preach, or anything I ever read out of the Bible before I even was a follower of God, I knew those words hit hard. Before I believed it was true, all I knew is that it hit hard. Those words were so profound that they were true, it would be amazing. So that’s why I implemented a lot of faith-based verses in my rhyme. Over time, I find that it’s the stone truth and go even harder.
Malice, after you announced that you were quitting the group, how long was it before Pusha came back with more ideas for the Clipse?
M: I was being bombarded with not just the Clipse but tons and tons of money. But what’s so dope about it is my brother and I respect each other. He showed me a lot of grace over the years, and he would always bring these opportunities to the table. He would say things like, “Listen, I already told him that you ain’t doing it, but I didn’t want all this money to come by and I ain’t bring it to you, or at least let you know, let you know.” I’m talking about ten years of that.
Were there songs that you missed performing when you were off the road?
M: Nah. The camaraderie with my brother was the only thing I missed. People say, “When are the Clipse going to reunite?” But we’ve always been tight outside of the music.
P: I will say that the Hell Hath No Fury part of the set turns up so crazy. I really missed it. I missed it so much.
Is that your favorite album?
P: For sure. By the time “Momma I’m So Sorry” starts … bruh.
M: I think that’s just because I catch his breath on the song. On the last word, I come in and I catch his last breath. I think that’s what he missed.
P: To see people react like it just dropped yesterday was like … man.
M: Timeless. Timeless.
P: Yes, timeless.
Before you go, I have to ask about a lyric. It goes, “Let me see you push a T.”
P: Incredible. Incredible display. Incredible display of battle raps. Listen man, Kendrick …
M: It was a master class.
