In July 9’s episode of HBO’s The Righteous Gemstones, “Interlude III,” siblings Jesse and Judy Gemstone — the petulant heirs to Eli and Aimee-Leigh Gemstone’s ostentatious televangelism empire — share a rare tender moment. “I get real excited sometimes,” Judy tells Jesse. “I want to do things my own way, and when it feels like my own way ain’t working or I’m starting to look bad, something goes off in me. It just feels warm; my ears get hot. I figure, Fuck it. They want it. Let’s give ’em something.” Jesse empathizes with this impulse. “My motor runs hot, too,” he says. “It’s that Gemstone temper we both got. We get it from Daddy.” Through three seasons of Gemstones, this may be the clearest explanation the show has provided for why Jesse and Judy are the way that they are. It’s notable, then, that the actors in this scene are not Danny McBride and Edi Patterson but their teenage counterparts, J. Gaven Wilde and Emma Shannon.
Wilde and Shannon made their first appearances as young Jesse and young Judy in Gemstones’ season-one episode “Interlude.” Their appearances could easily have been one-note — a cheap excuse to mine laughs by having kids say age-inappropriate things like “Smell my finger” or “It makes my bird twitch.” Instead, Wilde and Shannon, just 15 and 12 at the time, blew away expectations and gave the show’s writers another dimension through which to explore these characters in subsequent episodes. “I don’t think they knew that [‘Interlude’] would become an every-season episode until they saw how great these kids actually were,” the show’s casting director, Sherry Thomas, says. Rather than search for physical matches, Thomas and fellow casting director Lisa Mae Fincannon screened hundreds of candidates to find actors who captured McBride and Patterson’s more ineffable qualities. Fincannon remembers squealing when she met Wilde for the first time on location at a picturesque marsh in South Carolina. The young actor did a perfect accidental McBride impression when he exclaimed, “Dang, this place is sweet!”
Wilde and Shannon, now 19 and 17, are uncanny as the younger versions of Jesse and Judy, mimicking their every mannerism and vocal tic to perfection. “Interlude I” sees the siblings in 1989, failing to cope with the news that their mom is pregnant with their little brother Kelvin. “Interlude II” catches up with them during Christmas of 1993, where, among other things, they debate whether the word “pussy” qualifies as “a cuss.” And “Interlude III” drops in on them in the year 2000, where they navigate the unique awkwardness of familial and romantic relationships in their late teens. Neither Wilde or Shannon takes this opportunity for granted. They may only appear in Gemstones once per season, but in that time they’ve gotten to showcase their range, interface with personal heroes, and build a friendship with one another that will live on outside the show.
Can you tell me about the first time you met each other?
Emma Shannon: It’s a funny story, because we really hit it off on the first day. I remember we met on set, and we kind of just had to jump in and do a scene. But after we met and talked, we all just jumped in a car together, and we went to the beach. Gaven had his camera, and he was taking pictures. It was awesome.
When you went in to film that first episode together, the show was still in the process of filming its first season. How much of it had you gotten the chance to see?
J. Gaven Wilde: I don’t think we knew anything. On set, there was one teaser that came out. But it was a teaser — there wasn’t really much to draw from. I think both of us really just pulled from previous projects that Edi and Danny were in, because it was really all we could do. There was nothing out at the time about the show.
ES: I watched Vice Principals for my audition to do some research on Edi, and then I rewatched it when I booked the role.
JGW: I love Vice Principals. I drew a lot from Vice Principals.
Were your parents hesitant at all to let you audition for a show that is, at times, so inappropriate for children?
JGW: Since the beginning of our careers, we’ve both had to push the limits, even just in auditions. I think both of our parents are used to it now. Most of what we have done or said in the show, we’ve probably done in an audition before. So all those nerves about saying stuff in front of my parents have all gone away now.
ES: Yeah, the amount of auditions I’ve been on where I have had to do or say crazy things … My mom wasn’t too nervous about it.
Does cursing on television open the floodgates for you to curse openly at home?
JGW: Yeah, I’m not going to lie. My mom’s just used to it at this point.
ES: I try not to! But when I’m on set and I get to say those things, it’s kind of like, Woohoo! This is freedom!
Talk to me about how you built your impersonations of Danny and Edi. How much were you operating on instinct, and how much of it is noticing specific details about Edi and Danny and rehearsing them?
JGW: I think the reason why it was just sort of easy for me — not to come off arrogant or anything — is that I’ve always been good at impressions. I put some work in and I studied him a little bit, but I really just look at it as a big impression. There’s a few different things that I tried to get right, mainly Danny’s cadence and the way that he speaks. He’s also very animated with his head. The best way to describe him, I think, is: He’s a man-child. So any form of movement that I do, I always try to relate it to what I would do if I was 4 and throwing a temper tantrum.
ES: I just watched videos of everything Edi’s been in. And I noticed certain things she does — she does this head shake, like [mimics head shake] that’s really funny. And after we watched season one, we kind of saw how the characters acted. So every season, it gets easier and easier. I feel like now we’re really in touch with it. They would put us up in the same hotel, and we would practice together before we film and give each other notes.
Really quick, Gaven: What other impressions do you do?
JGW: Oh, gosh. I’ve been doing them since I was young. I do —
ES: Winnie the Pooh!
JGW: No, no, I’m not going to do that one.
ES: He did it on the phone yesterday!
JGW: That was the first time I ever did it.
ES: It was so good, too.
JGW: I’m going to mess it up now. I don’t know. I can do Peter from Family Guy: [Giggles as Peter Griffin] “Hey, Lois!”
[Laughter.]
When I think about Judy and Jesse, both characters seem to carry themselves with a certain swagger that they use to overcompensate for deep insecurities. How difficult is it to showcase both layers of that in your performance?
JGW: It’s a challenge, but I guess I’ve never really thought of it like that. They are more than likely trying to cover for something, but I’ve always looked at it like they just think they’re the bee’s knees and they have no insecurities.
ES: I’ve always thought of Judy as a person who is dealing with some things underneath that are challenging for her. I think you get to see a different side this season, and that’s exciting. But it’s always been in my mind that there’s something troubling her in a way.
Can you talk me through the scene in the new episode where we get to see that side of her? The one where Judy and Jesse bond over their issues with their tempers?
ES: I remember we started practicing the second we got it. We weren’t even in South Carolina yet. We were doing that scene over the phone. We really, really wanted to nail it and show that this is a different range for these characters.
JGW: What I really tried to bring to that scene was an overall brother-sister tension. We wanted to show that Jesse and Judy are deeper than what we have seen so far. They’re not just these one-dimensional characters. They can be deep and complex.
How would you describe Jesse and Judy’s sibling relationship as a whole?
JGW: I think, deep down, they love each other. I think, especially with the introduction of Kelvin, they grew closer, because neither of us wanted Kelvin to be a new member of the family. We hate each other, but deep down we love each other.
ES: I agree! They don’t like to admit it, but I think they’re very protective over each other.
“Interlude II” saw the introduction of Tristan Borders, who plays the young Kelvin. As people who have gone through the experience of being young and on sets, do you feel a certain protectiveness over him?
JGW: Honestly, Tristan is such a smart kid. And he’s a really great actor! He does such a good job at listening and following directions. Heck, he does a better job than I do sometimes. He was very easy to work with. It’s always cool when there’s a new cast member added, especially somebody that young, because they’re so excited and giddy about being on set.
ES: He’s very natural. And he’s just the cutest! He made us these cute little books. And he would write his own songs and show us his songs. He’s awesome. We’re very protective over him.
Does seeing him remind you of what it was like to be that young on set?
ES: I started out when I was about 6 years old, so it did remind me of being on set with a bunch of people older than me. I’d be so excited to meet new people, especially if they were celebrities. I don’t think it was ever scary. I was always just so excited to have fun and do my craft.
You probably have to be more reserved about it on set now that you’re a bit older, but what celebrities were you most excited to meet while working on Gemstones?
ES: Adam DeVine!
JGW: Meeting Danny was supercool to me. I know that’s a cliché answer, because I play the younger version of him, but I’d just seen him in so many things prior — particularly Land of the Lost, which is one of my favorite movies. John Goodman was amazing to see as well. But it’s either Danny or Adam. Because of Pitch Perfect.
ES: I love Pitch Perfect! I was so excited. And Jennifer Nettles too, because I love Sugarland. My favorite song when I was younger was “Stuck Like Glue.”
What is it like to work with Walton Goggins? He’s in character from the moment he’s on set, right? Does it inspire you to want to take that approach?
JGW: 100 percent. And to a certain degree, I do try to do that, but just being on the Gemstones set is so fun that it’s very hard to stay in character when you’re not filming. I want to talk to everybody and live it up and be in the moment. I’m just so mesmerized by the sets and all the equipment they have. If I tried to take that approach, I would have to constantly remind myself, Come on, be Danny. Be Danny. But I watch Walton and, man, I just envy that level of dedication.
ES: I was blown away by him, because he would be in character all the time, and before a scene even started, he would start improvising with us and talking to us so we would get in it too. And then they would call action, and he would just start his lines.
He wasn’t in the same episode as either of you, but season two of Gemstones featured a guest turn by one of the most famous child actors of all time, Macaulay Culkin. Did either of you get the chance to meet him?
JGW: I did! My mom was working wardrobe on the show, and I was there just to visit and see what was going on. My mom came up to me and she’s like, “Macaulay Culkin is here, and he wants to talk to you.” I was like, “No, he doesn’t! What do you mean? There’s no way.” And she looks me dead in the eyes and she’s dead serious. She’s like, “Gaven, go. He’s waiting in his trailer for you.”
So I walk over there, and he’s just waiting outside of his trailer, and his body language was open to me. I didn’t have to tap him on the shoulder and be like “… Hey, man.” Immediately when he saw me, he was like, “Gaven, what’s going on, man?” We just sat and we talked about acting, and we talked about what it was like to be a child actor. I told him I was homeschooled, and — it was funny — he told me that he got kicked out of a few schools because of his acting career as a child. He just told me that I did a good job. That was the same day I got to tell Walton how much I appreciate him as an actor. So I had the best conversation for a good 20 minutes with both of them.
Gaven, I saw on your Instagram that you’ve started shooting your own films now. When are you going to cast Emma in one of your projects?
JGW: Listen, believe it or not, we have talked about that! If she wasn’t in Los Angeles, I would totally have her down [to Atlanta] for something.
You’d have to be able to afford her quote, though.
JGW: Emma’s a great actress. I’m probably going to have to give her like $2 million or something to come down here.
ES: That much? I could fly there!
JGW: Would you settle for some lint in my pocket?
ES: Yes!
