How do Trinitarian Christians respond to these differences between Jesus Christ and God

Question

How do people who believe in the theology of The Holy Trinity respond to these clear differences between God and Jesus Christ?

#	The Father	Jesus Christ
1.	God is not put to the test (Deut 6:16)	Jesus was put to the test in the wilderness
2.	God is not mocked(Gal 6:7)	Jesus was mocked on the cross, save us and yourself, he is calling Elijah
3	God has immortality and cannot die	Jesus died first and received the breath of life from God
4	God has been sited on that throne for all eternity	Jesus is sited at the right hand of that throne and not on it, One Sat On it
5	God knows the end from the beginning	Jesus does not know the time of his second coming, not even the angels but the Father

The differences above show that Jesus Christ received the breath of life from God like the two witnesses of The Book of Revelation and indeed he is the Suffering Servant.

Isaiah 53:4-6

However, it was our sicknesses that He Himself bore, And our pains that He carried; Yet we ourselves assumed that He had been afflicted, Struck down by God, and humiliated. 5 But He was [c]pierced for our offenses, He was crushed for our wrongdoings; The punishment for our [d]well-being was laid upon Him, And by His wounds we are healed. 6 All of us, like sheep, have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the Lord has caused the wrongdoing of us all To [e]fall on Him.

And surely a servant is not greater than his master who is God.

As a Christian, I do believe in the words Jesus said that he did not know of the second coming, not even the angels but the Father, if Jesus denied this knowledge then he is not omniscient and hence not God, If I deny those words, I make the Lord Jesus Christ a liar, which he is not and never will be. How do Trinitarian Christians respond?

Answer 1

All but one of your objections are easily answered. Some exhibit significant misunderstanding of the Scripture they quote.

Deuteronomy 6:16 says straight out that God can be tested, and that He was "when [Israel] complained at Massah". The passage isn't establishing "can't be tested" as if some inviolate law of logic. Rather, it is establishing that it is wrong (that is, sinful) to "test" God.

Your second point again misunderstands what "cannot" means. If you believe it impossible for people to insult the Father as the Son was insulted, I invite you to spend some time on Philosophy.SE and/or listening to any number of zealous anti-theists. What Galatians 6:7 is saying is rather that a) such mocking is evil, and b) that those who do so will not prevail; in the end, the hollowness of their accusations will be revealed, just as the mockery of Christ was revealed to be false. (See also this article.)

In Jesus, God took human nature upon Himself. In human form, the human body could be "killed"... but only because Jesus (God) allowed it (John 10:18). Nor did He stay dead.

Similarly, while in human form, God (Jesus) voluntarily took on certain limitations, including partial limits on His omniscience. (But He still knew our thoughts and could "see" things through other than human-physical senses.) As a result, before the Resurrection, His knowledge was limited, by His own actions. After the Resurrection, however, a statement by Peter (John 21:17) suggests that His full omniscience has been restored. (See also this article and this article.)

The question of the "servant" concerns a role, and here, Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus (God) set aside His "godhood" in order to better relate to His creatures, and to demonstrate how we ought to live for Him and for each other. "Though he was in the form of God, [He] did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant." (Philippians 2:6-7) He "came down from heaven" not for His own Glory, though He certainly deserves such, but to serve His creatures; "not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many" (Matthew 20:28). His "lesser-ness" is not inherent, but by His own choice and actions. (Note too how this relates also to the previous point regarding His omniscience.)

Out of your supposed objections, this leaves Jesus "seated at the right hand of the throne of God" as the only with any substance. However, Scripture also teaches that God is omnipresent¹, which clearly makes "literally" sitting/standing beside Himself a possibility. Additionally, the "right hand" position has cultural/symbolic meaning and the two distinct positions correspond to different roles. A judge who is also a defense lawyer would certainly find it convenient to be in two places at once during a trial. (A cheeky person might also say that a single throne is insufficient to contain God.)

(¹ We can debate whether God is "everywhere, simultaneously, at all times", but it's clear that the Father and/or Son are at least capable of polypresence, which is sufficient for our purposes.)

Answer 2

Trinitarians do not believe that God the Son and God the Father are identical.

It's a common misconception about Trinitarian belief. They are in fact different persons. This explains why there can be differences between them.

God the Son voluntarily took on human nature, having both human and divine natures, becoming both fully God and fully Man. As a man Jesus:

• can be tested;
• can be mocked
• can die
• can be ignorant of things

As a different person from God the Father he can be seated on the right of the throne, not on it (especially remembering that we are talking metaphor here).

Answer 3

First and foremost the doctrine of the trinity is not an "assumption." It is the normative systematic theology of God in Christianity and is BASED on the fact that the Bible is explicit in telling us that there is, was and forever will be only ONE God AND the fact that the Bible identifies three (and only three) persons as God.

So, explaining the nature of the one God is the whole point of the doctrine of the trinity. That is its goal and it does so by IDENTIFYING God in MANY different contexts that reveal His UNIQUE attributes usually manifested by His UNIQUE actions.

The Bible identifies God by, 1.) His names. 2.) His titles. 3.) His unique attributes. 4.) His unique actions. 5.) His worship. I am not aware of any other literary, contextual means by which the Bible clearly identifies God. I could be wrong, but I think this list is comprehensive.

If you will examine the Bible thoroughly you should be able to quickly discover that there are three and ONLY three "persons" who are identified as God by the COMBINATION of the literary means listed above.

These persons are each variously... 1.) CALLED by the NAMES of God, (YHWH, and its variants) either directly or indirectly, usually both.

2.) RECOGNIZED with the TITLES of God, (Lord, king, savior, redeemer, etc.

3.) ATTRIBUTED with the UNIQUE characteristics of God, (omnipresence, omnipotence, omniscience, eternality,)

4.) CREDITED with the UNIQUE actions of God, (creation, origin of God's word, salvation of men and/or creation, etc.

5.) WORSHIPED and/or given the honor, reverence and position due to God ALONE etc.

I am NOT saying that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all consistently, equally and in every mention identified as God in every place they are represented in the Bible by any combination of these 5. Nor am I saying that each person of the trinity is represented equally by ALL FIVE of these means of identifying God.

I AM saying, 1.) that each person of the trinity receives some COMBINATION of these 5 means of identifying and distinguishing God listed above. 2.) ONLY the three persons of the trinity receive some COMBINATION OF THESE 5.

The Bible does not attribute creation (a UNIQUE act of God alone) to any person other than those to whom it ALSO refers to as "God" by name or title and to whom is also attributes other unique actions or attributes that identify "God."

Looking at it from another point, the Bible does not call anyone "God" (in the proper sense - meaning THE one and only God) to whom it does not attribute the UNIQUE actions and UNIQUE attributes of God.

Looking at this from the negative, the Bible does NOT attribute the UNIQUE CHARACTERISTICS of God, such as omnipresence or eternality, to anyone whom it does NOT call "God" (by name and/or title) in the proper sense.

The Bible never attributes omnipresence or eternality to anyone whom it does not call "God" and /or shows being worshiped. Again, there are only three persons in the whole Bible who meet this criteria for identifying God.

To make solid my point you have for example at Isaiah 40:4, "I, the Lord, am the first, and with the last. I am He." Revelation 1:17-18 where Jesus is speaking, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, and the living One; and I was dead, and behold I am alive forever more, and I have the keys of death and Hades."

Another example from Isaiah 43:11. "I, even I, am the Lord; And there is no savior besides Me." Luke 2:11, "for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord."

The last example from Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."

John 1:3, "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." Colossians 1:16, "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created by Him and for Him."

The list of examples could go on but I think you get the point. A true understanding (within human limits) of who God IS, is essential to a valid relationship with Himself according to His own purpose. No valid, systematic theology can be drawn by reducing or eliminating scriptural evidence. We must account for ALL of God's revelation to come to a realization of who God is and what He has done and therefore what His very nature is.

God has revealed Himself to us in different ways at different times as the Biblical revelation unfolded over time according to His eternal purpose. It is ONLY accounting for ALL of this revelation that we can know Him as He has revealed Himself.

BUT theology is NOT salvation. It is in Christ that we find God fully and sufficiently manifested to us human beings, AS a human being and for His own glory. And it is only through His Holy Spirit that we can know Him and be saved by His grace.

I'm sure you have heard the question, "Is the Trinity a requirement for salvation?" Personally, I say no. I do not believe trinitarianism is a REQUIREMENT for salvation. It is the RESULT of salvation. One cannot know Jesus Christ and somehow miss the fact that he is God. You cannot have experienced the presence of the Holy Spirit of God and somehow miss that He is God.

Romans 8:9-11, "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you."

Answer 4

Matthew's answer suggests that your key question relates to Christ's relationship as part of the Godhead. I'd like to further address that issue. The following is not about the usual trinitarian discussion per se (although it closely relates) but is more about how Christ can be fully God and fully man simultaneously, and the implications.

There is a vast amount of material pertinent to this subject in scripture and in related commentaries and papers. Unsurprisingly.

A brief and apparently "simple enough" passage is of great relevance.
Important: You could read this, think about it a little, and move on.
Or you could, as I found, discover that it is the gateway to a vast body of study, research, opinion, and discussion and a way to learn much more about Christ.

Philippians 2:5-11 and within that verses 6-8 have far more to say than is apparent. This is from one of the NT books which are widely acknowledged as genuinely Pauline, and amongst Paul's oldest writings. A web search on this passage will turn up many dozens (probably hundreds) of papers, commentaries, and more. In recent times (about the last 120 years :-) ) there has been a significant body who consider this passage to be an early hymn that Paul is quoting. In my (very unqualified but much thought through) opinion this is lazy revisionism.

Of significant relevance is the fact that two major words/concepts are mistranslated in effectively every modern translation. I say this based not on my scholarship, which is formally minimal in this area, but because the overwhelming majority of scholarly papers, etc going back for centuries (including writings from the earliest of Christian writers in some cases) make it clear that the translations we have (from all textual sources) do not do justice to the vast majority understandings of the passage.

I wrote an assignment on this passage for a Bible College course a year or so ago. In it, I tried to distill the truths conveyed by others of far far greater capability than I. You are welcome to a copy. (My email address is in my profile).

Philippians 2:5-11 (NIV - but almost no translations do it justice) (J B Phillips may come closest - but still "only starts on the path".).

⁵ In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:

⁶ Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; ⁷ rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. ⁸ And being found in appearance as a man he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death — even death on a cross!

⁹ Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, ¹⁰ that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, ¹¹ and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

J B Phillips:

5-11 Let Christ himself be your example as to what your attitude should be.

For he, who had always been God by nature, did not cling to his prerogatives as God’s equal, but stripped himself of all privilege by consenting to be a slave by nature and being born as mortal man. And, having become man, he humbled himself by living a life of utter obedience, even to the extent of dying, and the death he died was the death of a common criminal.

That is why God has now lifted him so high, and has given him the name beyond all names, so that at the name of Jesus “every knee shall bow”, whether in Heaven or earth or under the earth. And that is why, in the end, “every tongue shall confess” that Jesus Christ” is the Lord, to the glory of God the Father.