"The Fremen war is an example of this: it represents a black hole for true values. It insatiably sucks-up attention, learning, evaluation, opinions; and triggers participants to engage in prognostication and policy-mongering. "
Exactly right. This war is a perfect example of the devil playing for both sides and being the referee as well. This doesn't mean you sit on the fence but just don't get drawn in at all.
Given the prevalence of confirmation bias, and the propensity to get stoked up about matters which can be presented having "two sides to the question" (paradigm: Rangers -v- Celtic), you wonder how we ever advanced beyond an agrarian subsistence economy. Like every miraculous event, it seems implausible and yet it happened.
I confess that 10 years ago I would have automatically "snapped" into conformance with the "obviously righteous side" in this Arrakis war. It is largely because of the light shed on these matters by Dr. Charlton's blog that I have now sufficient discernment to observe from that first terrible day several weeks ago that what is True and Good is nowhere to be found within the global explosion of screeching that ensued.
31 October 2023 at 13:44
Mia said...
I think I know what your answer will be Dr. Charlton, but let me ask what you think the correct response is to "ambush prayer." I'm part of a typical pro-CHOAM congregation and from small groups to the pulpit leaders are abruptly inserting pro-CHOAM pleas into unrelated prayers they lead. My spiritual experience when this happens is that all I have to do is mentally focus and pray something simple like "forgive them Father for they know not what they do." It's not seemingly necessary to give any outward sign that I am contradicting or not participating.
In personal conversation, however, a sort of bored lack of agreement seems best and most likely to inspire thought (as opposed to the harsh retorts I would enjoy making in the moment.)
31 October 2023 at 15:08
Ugh said...
Really excruciating that we have to dance around and use Dune terms to discuss these issues.
@Ugh - Not sure we "have to" in this instance, since (as I say) the issues are pretty mainstream, at least in the UK; but I find it slightly amusing, and it offers a little 'distance' which is somewhat valuable - and indeed accurate from most people's actual perspectives.
@William W - Of course, I *have* been drawn into this at times - and the post is a reminder not to!
@william a - I presume that there were reasons for civilization, to do with plans of divine creation. I don't understand them, but presumably - to some extent at least - this kind of society is *overall* the best possibility for the kind of souls that have been incarnated in recent generations. And maybe that is still the case, even now? At any rate, we must make the best of it.
@william arthurs - Perhaps you were aware of this in picking your example, but in a drive around Northern Ireland in the 1990s I was surprised to see that Celtic-supporting areas flew the Fremen flag, while Rangers-supporting areas flew the CHOAM flag.
1 November 2023 at 00:02
Karl said...
Dr Charlton, I shall run the risk of offering a slightly different view.
Although old enough to see that the current cycle of violence is tragically nothing new in that area, for the first time in my life I went on a political march last Saturday in support of the Fremen. When I analysed my feelings as to why, I concluded that it was not only against the massively disproportionate response against Fremen civilians and children in particular, it was also in large part to register my objection against the seemingly totally pro-Choam line being pushed by the UK government and media. Again, I cannot remember it being ever so severe in my lifetime, and accompanied by threats against dissenters. In fact, I view the current crackdown as being far more hardline than that seen during Covid.
The "real" goal seems to be to get more and bigger wars going, and to perhaps fuse them into a giant "world" war, which can then just destroy the remnants of Western civilization, and get people into an orgy of hate and despair. But then, I'm a conspiracy theorist.
@Karl - Well, wrt *sides* in the Arrakis war and their war goals, neither seem to deserve *support* - and "support" is what the demo organizers seem to me be saying, pretty candidly.
I certainly regard the current active UK military support of CHOAM to be wrong - and almost indescribably stupid (but then, the UK rulers and minions are relentlessly Britain-hating and nationally suicidal, and have been for a couple of decades - so it is not a suprise).
"I view the current crackdown as being far more hardline than that seen during Covid" -
I just don't see how you can believe that, when you look at the many news headlines in the Times, Guardian, Mail, BBC etc. over the past week-plus - these are *very* explicitly sympathetic to the Fremen nationals.
I am in zero doubt that the Arrakis war was set-up (by elements on both sides) to be intentionally *divisive* - to engender resentment and destructive hate between and within nations - and that intent is being richly fulfilled.
@JG - Yes. And pretty obviously to anyone who is seriously prepared to entertain the hypothesis.
In particular, what is envisaged is not for the benefit of any nations or group of human beings; it is engineered by those who are against people, against life, against truth/ beauty/ virtue... Against God and divine creation.
Of course, a few individuals in all nations and groupings will benefit from war in the short term, and a few more have been deluded into imagining they or their cause will do well out of this...
But these are merely the ignorant dupes and the evil deranged; they are Not the Beings who have initiated and continue this global war escalation.
I pray for the protection of innocents & God's mercy on them. I pray for evil schemes to be brought into the light & finish up with conversion of all ppl to the truth of Jesus in that part of the world. There's nothing more for me to say. It's better to pray for that rather than worry about your brother's or sister's prayers. If you pray out loud as well then your subtle point gets heard - otherwise thinking God needs to forgive them while you are mid-prayer is a distraction & probably a tactic of the enemy as it encourages judgement of another.
@DIG "pray out loud as well then your subtle point gets heard - otherwise thinking God needs to forgive them while you are mid-prayer is a distraction"
That's an interesting argument for praying aloud, if that is how it works for you. Unfortunately, I find almost the opposite. Praying aloud, my mind wanders, if anything, more.
But I try not to allow this to dismay me for too long! - it's just yet-another thing I do that needs repenting...
"I pray for the protection of innocents & God's mercy on them."
I know what you mean; but spiritually there is no need whatsoever to pray for God's *mercy* on true innocents - at least, not by my understanding of God.
This is Of Course not to excuse the slaughter of innocents as a deliberate strategy - which is, and has been, very common in war - albeit dishonestly denied and falsely explained.
1 November 2023 at 15:51
It has been noticed in this corner of the blogosphere; that the Litmus Test issue of the current Arrakis war has flipped some people (both Christian and 'based') to the Establishment side. The observation is that a significant number of individuals who had seen-through the birdemic, antiracism, climate energy etc. and stayed on the right side of the spiritual war - have fallen for the aggressively pro-CHOAM Western Establishment line (with anyone who fails to toe this line branded racist). These people have, in effect, changed sides in the spiritual war - at least on this major issue; and, unless they repent, we can expect them to 'converge' increasingly from now onwards. Less remarked is that those who have taken the side of the Fremen in the Arrakis conflict are doing exactly the same thing, but less obviously! Because, on this issue, the mainstream media and political institutions are, in fact, divided between a pro-CHOAM majority and a pro-Fremen minority - but both are included within the mainstream narrative, both have significant Establishment support: both are part of The Narrative. This may sound fiendishly clever, implying that it is therefore difficult (impossible?) for anyone to navigate such Litmus Tests - where, apparently, people are caught by whatever their choice. But really this isn't difficult! The rule is that anything which features strongly in the mainstream media, and major point-of-view - whether presented as pro- or contra- is significantly and decisively wrong. The very fact of major and sustained media coverage shows this. Whenever the mass media makes a big story, and whenever that story is presented as having two sides; we can be sure that we are being played and the side of real Good is not being mentioned. Both presented choices of mainstream sides are surely wrong; because Establishment-endorsed. As I say, this isn't difficult - so far; although it may be more difficult to learn where the concealed, un-mentioned Good choice actually lies - if there is one. If there is one... because with some major mainstream issues, there is no Good position that can be adopted; the whole issue is rotten. When both sides are wrong, the whole issue is tainted. The Fremen war is an example of this: it represents a black hole for true values. It insatiably sucks-up attention, learning, evaluation, opinions; and triggers participants to engage in prognostication and policy-mongering. Another example is electoral politics: the entire discourse of 'parties'. 'leaders' and 'elections' is itself a corruption; and participation is itself a choice of taking the wrong side. Whatever it is that the evil-liars of the Establishment want us to attend-to and discuss: we know that must be wrong - and the rule applies to (supposed) minority and unpopular attitudes and ideologies (e.g. pro-Fremen, pro-Trump, sensible environmentalism, 'free speech', meritocracy...) as much as to the mass- and leadership-endorsed opinions.
"Are Litmus Test traps difficult to avoid? Not really, not so far..."
14 Comments -
"The Fremen war is an example of this: it represents a black hole for true values. It insatiably sucks-up attention, learning, evaluation, opinions; and triggers participants to engage in prognostication and policy-mongering. "
Exactly right. This war is a perfect example of the devil playing for both sides and being the referee as well. This doesn't mean you sit on the fence but just don't get drawn in at all.
31 October 2023 at 10:46
Given the prevalence of confirmation bias, and the propensity to get stoked up about matters which can be presented having "two sides to the question" (paradigm: Rangers -v- Celtic), you wonder how we ever advanced beyond an agrarian subsistence economy. Like every miraculous event, it seems implausible and yet it happened.
31 October 2023 at 11:41
I confess that 10 years ago I would have automatically "snapped" into conformance with the "obviously righteous side" in this Arrakis war. It is largely because of the light shed on these matters by Dr. Charlton's blog that I have now sufficient discernment to observe from that first terrible day several weeks ago that what is True and Good is nowhere to be found within the global explosion of screeching that ensued.
31 October 2023 at 13:44
I think I know what your answer will be Dr. Charlton, but let me ask what you think the correct response is to "ambush prayer." I'm part of a typical pro-CHOAM congregation and from small groups to the pulpit leaders are abruptly inserting pro-CHOAM pleas into unrelated prayers they lead. My spiritual experience when this happens is that all I have to do is mentally focus and pray something simple like "forgive them Father for they know not what they do." It's not seemingly necessary to give any outward sign that I am contradicting or not participating.
In personal conversation, however, a sort of bored lack of agreement seems best and most likely to inspire thought (as opposed to the harsh retorts I would enjoy making in the moment.)
31 October 2023 at 15:08
Really excruciating that we have to dance around and use Dune terms to discuss these issues.
31 October 2023 at 17:48
@Ugh - Not sure we "have to" in this instance, since (as I say) the issues are pretty mainstream, at least in the UK; but I find it slightly amusing, and it offers a little 'distance' which is somewhat valuable - and indeed accurate from most people's actual perspectives.
31 October 2023 at 18:55
@William W - Of course, I *have* been drawn into this at times - and the post is a reminder not to!
@william a - I presume that there were reasons for civilization, to do with plans of divine creation. I don't understand them, but presumably - to some extent at least - this kind of society is *overall* the best possibility for the kind of souls that have been incarnated in recent generations. And maybe that is still the case, even now? At any rate, we must make the best of it.
31 October 2023 at 21:44
@william arthurs - Perhaps you were aware of this in picking your example, but in a drive around Northern Ireland in the 1990s I was surprised to see that Celtic-supporting areas flew the Fremen flag, while Rangers-supporting areas flew the CHOAM flag.
1 November 2023 at 00:02
Dr Charlton, I shall run the risk of offering a slightly different view.
Although old enough to see that the current cycle of violence is tragically nothing new in that area, for the first time in my life I went on a political march last Saturday in support of the Fremen. When I analysed my feelings as to why, I concluded that it was not only against the massively disproportionate response against Fremen civilians and children in particular, it was also in large part to register my objection against the seemingly totally pro-Choam line being pushed by the UK government and media. Again, I cannot remember it being ever so severe in my lifetime, and accompanied by threats against dissenters. In fact, I view the current crackdown as being far more hardline than that seen during Covid.
1 November 2023 at 11:54
The "real" goal seems to be to get more and bigger wars going, and to perhaps fuse them into a giant "world" war, which can then just destroy the remnants of Western civilization, and get people into an orgy of hate and despair. But then, I'm a conspiracy theorist.
1 November 2023 at 12:53
@Karl - Well, wrt *sides* in the Arrakis war and their war goals, neither seem to deserve *support* - and "support" is what the demo organizers seem to me be saying, pretty candidly.
I certainly regard the current active UK military support of CHOAM to be wrong - and almost indescribably stupid (but then, the UK rulers and minions are relentlessly Britain-hating and nationally suicidal, and have been for a couple of decades - so it is not a suprise).
"I view the current crackdown as being far more hardline than that seen during Covid" -
I just don't see how you can believe that, when you look at the many news headlines in the Times, Guardian, Mail, BBC etc. over the past week-plus - these are *very* explicitly sympathetic to the Fremen nationals.
I am in zero doubt that the Arrakis war was set-up (by elements on both sides) to be intentionally *divisive* - to engender resentment and destructive hate between and within nations - and that intent is being richly fulfilled.
1 November 2023 at 12:53
@JG - Yes. And pretty obviously to anyone who is seriously prepared to entertain the hypothesis.
In particular, what is envisaged is not for the benefit of any nations or group of human beings; it is engineered by those who are against people, against life, against truth/ beauty/ virtue... Against God and divine creation.
Of course, a few individuals in all nations and groupings will benefit from war in the short term, and a few more have been deluded into imagining they or their cause will do well out of this...
But these are merely the ignorant dupes and the evil deranged; they are Not the Beings who have initiated and continue this global war escalation.
1 November 2023 at 12:59
I pray for the protection of innocents & God's mercy on them. I pray for evil schemes to be brought into the light & finish up with conversion of all ppl to the truth of Jesus in that part of the world. There's nothing more for me to say. It's better to pray for that rather than worry about your brother's or sister's prayers. If you pray out loud as well then your subtle point gets heard - otherwise thinking God needs to forgive them while you are mid-prayer is a distraction & probably a tactic of the enemy as it encourages judgement of another.
1 November 2023 at 15:00
@DIG "pray out loud as well then your subtle point gets heard - otherwise thinking God needs to forgive them while you are mid-prayer is a distraction"
That's an interesting argument for praying aloud, if that is how it works for you. Unfortunately, I find almost the opposite. Praying aloud, my mind wanders, if anything, more.
But I try not to allow this to dismay me for too long! - it's just yet-another thing I do that needs repenting...
"I pray for the protection of innocents & God's mercy on them."
I know what you mean; but spiritually there is no need whatsoever to pray for God's *mercy* on true innocents - at least, not by my understanding of God.
This is Of Course not to excuse the slaughter of innocents as a deliberate strategy - which is, and has been, very common in war - albeit dishonestly denied and falsely explained.
1 November 2023 at 15:51