Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard: Difference between revisions

Hello. This is to notify the community that there is an ongoing global ban proposal for User:Kubura who has been active on this wiki. You are invited to participate at m:Request for comment/Global ban for Kubura. Thank you. Blablubbs ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:29, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wow. That is an astonishing case, especially the socking evidence presented by Lasta. —valereee (talk) 10:50, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. But even apart from the brazen socking affecting stewards elections, the evidence presented in the RfC is pretty shocking, as are the events that already transpired during the RfC itself. There was another attack of the clones/socks (some of them blocked now), and an unhinged nationalistic rant by one of Kubura's supporters that would have earned a quick WP:NOTHERE indef block had it occurred here. But apparently on Meta this kind of thing is considered OK. Another Kubura's supporter from hr.wiki and an active participant in a prior Meta RfC about hr.wiki made a bunch of posts there that look to me like pretty straightforward Holocaust denial, including this post about Jasenovac concentration camp. It's bad enough that WMF allows this stuff to go on at some of the smaller wikis, but I really don't understand why they let this continue at the Meta site itself. Nsk92 (talk) 01:21, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nsk92, I don't know if you noticed the reaction to MJL's move of extended comment to the talk page? Apparently on meta that's something only admins can do, per recent policy intended to prevent RfCs from going off topic. But the admins seem reluctant to actually do that. —valereee (talk) 14:51, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I did notice this point raised at the RfC talk page. It amazes me that Meta has these kind of policies in place and yet they apparently have few safeguards against blatant nationalistic soapboxing and actual hate speech. It's unclear to me why they allow IPs to vote in those meta RfCs either since in practice this only seems to encourage sock-puppetry and block evasion there. They must not have heard about the paradox of tolerance. Nsk92 (talk) 02:15, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I, DL6443, would like to appeal my topic ban at the following four articles:

• Motion picture content rating system
• Video game content rating system
• Television content rating system
• Mobile software content rating system

Back in 2016 (as SlitherioFan2016), I was blocked for persistently edit-warring and changing the colour scheme at the comparison tables of said articles, so that they did not meet the necessary accessibility threshold required for said tables and articles.

• Ban discussion in March 2017
• Unban discussion June 2019

It has now been more than a year since I was unblocked in June 2019, and while I still have an interest in the topic of content ratings, I am considerably more aware and responsible of my actions, particularly regarding accessibility. I am therefore appealing my topic ban as I have found errors in this field of articles that need to be corrected (e.g. typos, spelling and grammar errors) and that I would like to begin by correcting them, as well as expanding the content of those articles. I hope you will consider my appeal. --DL6443 01:27, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support: FWIW, I took a glance through their contribs and user talk page history. It looks like they're working diligently to be constructive and have constructive discussions on talk pages when appropriate. They're also asking questions and clearly trying to learn more without being (IMO) burdensome. At this point, I don't see this TBAN being needed any more. DL6443, thanks for sticking it out. Best wishes, Waggie (talk) 03:57, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Point of order: I support in principle, but I can't see any evidence that you are topic-banned. You were banned from Motion picture rating system in October 2016 for one month (ANI discussion). There was an allegation that you used sockpuppets to violate the ban (here) but this was not proven and no additional sanction was imposed, so that ban is expired. There was a proposal a month later for a permanent ban from the four articles above (in this discussion) but this was archived without being enacted. Your siteban may have been related to your past behaviour on those articles but you successfully appealed it. As far as I can tell you have no active editing restrictions. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 18:00, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Ivanvector: My evidence that I am in fact tbanned is this discussion with Yamla and Sandstein on my user talk page. --DL6443 00:58, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Re-pinging Ivanvector, Sandstein and Yamla due to syntax error. --DL6443 00:58, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In the discussion linked to above, I expressed the view that the lifting of DL6443's site ban did not affect any other existing restrictions. I did not know then, and do not know now, whether such other restrictions exist. Accordingly, I offer no opinion about whether they should be lifted if they do exist. Sandstein 07:53, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Support. I think the easiest path forward here is to take the position that they are indeed topic-banned, and support the removal of the topic ban. I concur with Waggie, above; they have been working hard to be constructive so I don't anticipate further problems here. --Yamla (talk) 11:10, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support lifting all restrictions - I already kind of said so above, but there's confusion as to whether or not DL6443 is actually subject to this (or any other) sanction, so let's formally clean the slate. They've been editing quite constructively since being unblocked a little more than a year ago, and have even followed a topic ban which might not have been applicable. I'm pleased to see that my comment here turned out to be quite untrue. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 12:48, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support per Ivanvector. Given the user's recent efforts in trying to improve their behavior and edit constructively, I do not see any problems with this topic ban being lifted. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:59, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the excessive title but as it implies I have a question if there is such a guideline for so many prodding and AFDing that is going on. There has been around four editors that I can think of that have been baiting comic book related fictional character articles that always vote delete and / or nominate them or prod the article almost all in one day. While there is nothing wrong with it I keep wanting to rescue these articles but it is in vain since they are picking them all in once. Again I assume good faith. Nothing to block someone over obviously. But at the same time I feel helpless on improving or helping Wikipedia. See here, here, here, here, here, here and here are just some of many examples. It’s been going on for a while now. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 15:25, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not seeing an issue with any of those; all the deletion nominations have explained what the issue is. Wikipedia isn't a directory of everything; for something to have a Wikipedia article, it needs to demonstrate significant coverage in multiple, independent, reliable sources and the onus is on the people who want to keep the article to provide that. It might be annoying to have multiple related articles nominated at once, but if they all share the same issue it's not unusual for them all to come to light at once. Provided you can demonstrate the significant coverage in reliable sources, there's nothing to worry about and they'll all be closed as keep; if you can't demonstrate it, then the editors are acting correctly in nominating them for deletion. ‑ Iridescent 15:32, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I already said that. Though I feel that that there needs to be a guideline is to stop overnuking related articles on the same day if that makes sense. Definitely when they hop on the same bandwagon vote over and over. You know they are going to vote delete no matter if we add more sources etc that talk about it. Also how does one have time to improve more than one article anyway. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 16:58, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Comments- firstly, why weren't @Piotrus: and @Onel5969: informed of this discussion, which primarily concerns them? Secondly, it's interesting that people have infinite time to write unsourced crufty articles and regard sources as optional until someone raises an objection, but not too many objections because that's too much work. Reyk _YO! 19:41, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Jhenderson777 could really use a mentor-type situation to go over Wikipedia guidelines and policies because I believe they have a very fundamental misunderstanding on the scope of this site. This is not meant to be an insult, but they have a very Fandom-like mentality when it comes to these articles. Their anger seems to come from the idea that these are being unfairly deleted simply because they personally lack the manpower to save them rather than the simple fact that most do not actually reasonably pass WP:GNG. TTN (talk) 19:51, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment, first thanks for the ping Reyk. Second, I do a bit of work over at NPP, particularly at what we call "the back end of the queue". Many of those articles are redirects for months/years, and then someone turns them into an article. I'd say of the ones which are legitimate (not someone simply removing a redirect, or blanking a page, or putting ###### on the page) probably 60-75% of them get "reviewed" without problem. Another 10% or so get reverted, and then get improved, and restored. The rest are simply poorly cited articles which don't show the notability of the subject. These either get reverted, or sent to AfD for discussion if an editor simply continually reverts the redirect (or asks for an AfD discussion), without making any attempt to improve the sourcing to show notability. If a valid attempt is made, and I am unsure about the notability, I usually let another reviewer take a crack at it. If they're "nuked" on the same day, that's simply when they came up in the queue. I tend to think of WP as an encyclopedia, and not a fan magazine, but attempt to adhere strictly both WP:GNG and SN guidelines. Regardless, just thought I'd explain my process. Take care. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 20:25, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Reyk: To ping them was a ridiculous way to boil the pot and very unnecessary and I knew it would cause editors like User: TTN to say crap like this when this was just a civil question where I assumed good faith on and I didn’t say names in the first place. I guess @TTN: isn’t aware that I created at least four good articles and B-class articles or I am well aware of how the guidelines and essays are. What I see you are unaware of @TTN: is of Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Comics and I see how you dislike their rules on its way of handling it. Instead of deleting articles maybe you can discuss the way comic book character articles are in that particular page. Since you are not liking the way they were written all the time. I thank One15969 for being civil after the ping but I don’t really have a beef with him compared to the three other editors. He handled it better and more civilly while I can’t say the same with TTN. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 22:47, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

First, I don't think TTN was pinged? Second, the Manual of Style deals with style, while this section, the AfDs, and TTNs comments deal with notability. It doesn't matter how well-written and well-structured an article is, when the subject isn't notable it still should be deleted or redirected. Fram (talk) 08:18, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I for one have found the comments by Onel, TTN, and Piotrus in this section to be helpful and rationally thought out, and have added useful input into the discussion. Excluding them from a discussion started about their actions would have just been a one-sided airing of grievances. Reyk _YO! 11:57, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jhenderson777, you know that enormous "When you start a discussion about an editor, you must notify them on their user talk page" banner you saw when you started this thread? It means what it says; Reyk is doing you a favour by correcting your negligence and notifying the editors involved. ‑ Iridescent 14:15, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well thanks for him then. But I never complained in my first paragraph and I couldn’t remember names to ping at the time period. Also to mention I am busy in real life with things and I am on a mobile device editing which is tougher to edit on. Regarding the ping, I feel the topic is an irrelevant off topic banter and we should move on and move on from it. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 15:52, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(Thanks for the ping). This boils down to the mostly understandable fact that one can get frustrated, not having enough time to research and rescue content they consider useful. Tough - but Wikipedia cannot wait for one person. At best, I can recommend that Jhenderson777 asks for userfication/draftication of the article they want to work on. And there is nothing stopping them from reaching out to members of WikiProject Comics and related, creating a list of such articles, and working on them collaboratively in the future. What is more problematic is when one loses one's cool and starts making personal attacks against those they disagree with: "stick a fork in it for once... You are getting on my nerves." - as far as I can tell, TTN is always polite, unlike Jh777, and it is ironic Jh777 starts to complain about this about this, while in the very same post they say "editors like User: TTN to say crap like this". Then there is the smaller issue of not following the best practices (from the same diff: "It has cultural impact. I promise you that. Regardless if I found it or not." - which goes against wP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES which Jhenderson777 is well familiar with). Additionally, while WP:DEPROD does allow one to deprod things based on the weakest or none rationale, it does suggest adding a good one is best practices, and "Stop prodding AND AFDing so many related content simultaneously. Nobody can improve content with this kind of persistence to delete everything" is not it. I strongly urge Jhenderson777 to respect WP:AGF, WP:CIV, WP:NPA and like, and not to let whatever frustration they feel affect their edits. The only constructive thing here is to issue a civility warning and move on. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 08:45, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That was just one time where I got frustrated, Piotr, and I admit my wrongness and to cool off. Also I do recall User: TTN being ugly to someone who voted keep one time. I wish I could find where it was at. But I think you know and refuse to acknowledge it because you warned him about it. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 12:43, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• The PROD process is not appropriate for the topics in question because it is only for "uncontroversial deletion" and "must only be used if no opposition to the deletion is expected" Such nominators clearly expect and get opposition but they persist regardless. Note that TTN's use of deletion processes was restricted by arbcom in a similar case. Andrew🐉(talk) 11:33, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• What's the timeline here? Were the nominations made in one batch, or are they ongoing? Were PRODs continued after it became clear that at least one person (Jhenderson777) was likely to object to them, and therefore can't be considered uncontroversial? – Joe (talk) 12:34, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have a little too much stuff going on in real life (despite being a wikiholic sometimes) to go through all that. There shouldn’t be controversy anyway. Since I called it good faith it not really that controversial. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 12:53, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • I think these basic facts need to be established if you are expecting any administrator intervention as a result of this thread. If the nominations caused bad feelings but are finished, there's nothing to be done. If, as you claim in your original post, there was an overuse of PROD and/or AfD, we could address it – if it's continuing. Otherwise, what kind of resolution do you foresee? – Joe (talk) 13:11, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • There is just so many. I linked two articles that are prodded. Maybe someone like @Darkknight2149: can link all the prods and AFD going on. Apparently he reported this issue before. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 13:33, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • Here is every article currently proposed for deletion, and at a quick skim I'm not seeing anything comic book related in there. If you're going to raise a complaint, the onus is on you to provide some evidence for it, not just make an allegation and expect us to take your word for it. As Joe says, what administrative action are you actually asking for here? ‑ Iridescent 14:15, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • There are several comic book characters with prod tags currently. For example: Zeiss (comics), who is a Batman villain. There are obvious alternatives to deletion in such a case. Either the article might be improved by reference to its stated source of The Essential Batman Encyclopedia or other sources such as this. Failing that, it should be merged into a page like List of Batman family enemies, along with all the rest. Andrew🐉(talk) 15:00, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            • @Joe, reading your comment, I just got an idea. How about I declare all articles to be important to me? Then we could scrap the entire PROD system, as every single PROD could then be established controversial.. Look, I've been reading about the PROD system and to me, it seems to be full of loopholes. "Likely to object"? That's purely random. If I love cats and object to prod on cats and then declare I consider all cats notable, so this reasoning line would make all articles on cats resistant to this deletion method. Am I getting it right? - GizzyCatBella🍁 05:01, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • This stuff has been going on for a long time. The arbcom case I linked to was in 2008. TTN has since been inactive on and off for years at a time but has been especially active in the last year. Piotrus has likewise been especially active in this field in the last year. For example, here's a complaint about their prodding in February:

    Just in the last six weeks, I've "rescued" Tom Hughes and Margo Montgomery, Teacup in a Storm, Bluntman and Chronic, Breathless Mahoney, Tara King, Mike Gambit, Captain Battle, Cathy Gale, Dharma Initiative, Fanny Zilch, Knock-off Nigel, Mother (the Avengers), Oceanic Airlines, Persephone (The Matrix), Ethan Hunt, Purdey (The New Avengers), Scott Robinson and Charlene Mitchell, Steve Andropoulos and Betsy Stewart, Teacup in a Storm, Newton T. Bass, Batarang, Power Sword, Day of the Figurines, Nibbles (Tom and Jerry), Royal Flush Gang, Spike and Tyke (characters), Steve Johnson and Kayla Brady, Stormbringer, Sumuru (character) and Terrible Trio. The only thing that I "rescued" them from was Piotrus' inability to use Google Books and Internet Archive. Piotrus: it is time to step away from Prod and AfD. You are not good at it.

In the following discussion, there was a telling response

... I don't mid deprods or people disagreeing with me at AfD. All I do is to raise possible issues with notability and such for review. Sometimes the review ends up with deletion of content, sometimes with merger, sometimes with retaining it. This is just routine version of WP:BRD. We are here to improve Wikipedia, which sometimes involves discussions about what may need to be deleted. That's all. Please keep up the good job of saving articles, and if I ever do not reply to a good keep argument at AfD or such, please don't hesitate to ping me to re-review the situation. A rescued article is always better than a deleted one. It is just that sometimes someone has to clean our wiki house a little bit.

This indicates that Piotrus uses PROD as a form of bold cleanup – that he will prod an article with some issues as a way of getting it fixed or deleted. It seems clear that he expects that there may be reviews, rescues and other alternatives to deletion. This is not uncontroversial deletion and so the prod process should not be used. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:36, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I very rarely agree with Andrew about anything related to page deletion, and everyone knows I'm not a fan of having articles about things like minor comic book characters, but I really think Andrew hits the nail on the head here. PROD shouldn't be used as a way to test if someone opposes deletion. That's maybe what a {{notability}} tag should be used for. PROD is for when you are quite sure that no one will oppose the deletion.

That said, whether there is a problem or not seems susceptible to mathematics: what % of an editor's PRODs are deleted? If it's 50%, that's a problem. If it's 90%, it's not. Whether it's "overprodding" or not depends on the percentage. Lev¡vich 18:19, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I could likewise post a list of many articles Andrew deprodded and that he never even bothered to vote on when they went to AfD and that were unanimous deletes. Also, some comic articles do get deleted through the PROD system. It is illogical to claim that because sometimes someone objects to deletion in topic area x, then PROD is no longer applicable. While there are obvious cases on the keep side, it is impossible to guess which article will get deprodded. I've seen Andrew deprod articles that had zero references, zero reception, and where nobody, including him, was able to find a shred of helpful sourcing. I have also seen similar articles, or ones that are "slightly" better, get successfully deleted through PROD. Unless we rule that comic-topics are immune to PRODs, arguing that someone is making errors proding because some of their prods get challenged is a joke. All prods can be challenged, and unless someone is prodding stuff that habitually is kept, this is pointless. All prods are ALWAYS A TEST, since you never know criteria the reviewer is using. Plus there is the issue that if the reviewer uses bad criteria (like believing everything in a given topic area is notable because they are fond of it), does it reflect bad on the prodder, deprodded or the prod procedure itself? Anyway, as I am pretty certain most of my prods are deleted one way or another, I don't feel I am doing anything wrong - but let's look at the statistics, given that Andrew's problematic deprods and copy-paste keep votes in AfDs have been discussed here and in similar foras much more often than my actions. While I don't think there is any good way to get prod statistics (since edit summary search tools don't deal well with deleted edit summaries, AFAIK) ere's some data from AfD stats: for me Number of AfD's where vote matched result 79.5%, and for Andrew, 53.0%. 53% - that's about as good of a ratio as flipping a coin! It's pure noise, from the information sciences perspective, no value added. So one person here is much more often in-line with the community view than the other. Andrew said just above: "Piotrus: it is time to step away from Prod and AfD. You are not good at it." Right, Andrew, right... WP:BOOMERANG, anyone? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:51, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I've suspected for a long time that the point is for deprods to reflect badly on the person who placed it, no matter how silly the deprod rationale. But as I keep saying, as long as it's possible to deprod for dumb reasons like disliking the PROdding editor, or disliking the PROD process, mere whimsy, or just to be annoying, it isn't possible to infer a "controversy" that the other person should have been able to predict beforehand. Reyk _YO! 11:57, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm no admin and a relatively new NPP editor but have to note firstly that User:onel5969 does exceptional work at what is ultimately a relatively mucky job. It's sometimes often hard to make the calls about what to keep, what to tag, what to delete. As a novice, I've found that process pretty difficult at times - and sometimes it involves terrible decisions (the autistic kid whose non-notable bio of himself you have to nix, dashing his clear hopes is one that I'll remember for a long time) and sometimes it's crystal clear. Most often, it's borderline and you have to take the call - and the opprobrium if you get it wrong. You also get the messages on your talk, the AfD arguments and all the rest. Do you deserve getting dragged to AN when the decisions regarding notability have clearly involved a number of editors and consensus? Not really. I'm not saying anyone's above scrutiny, but as far as I can see, the process has actually been working fine here. Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 16:07, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I harbor no hard feelings for him compared to three other editors off the top of my head who like to do Order 66 with most articles. All I got to say He kind of says and does the same thing predictably and I got to work harder sometimes when I wasn’t even finished. For example: Scribbly the Boy Cartoonist had to be improved tremendously and he jumped the gun on redirecting the baby article because it wasn’t proven yet. Then I boldly merged it and it got improved more so I am no better sometimes. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 16:37, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • So work in draftspace. Works, no? Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 17:05, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Alexandermcnabb: I have to disagree with your comments about User:Onel5969's track record. It is nice that he is putting time and energy into doing NPP work, so A for effort. But one look at feedback from other users towards Onel5969's NPP actions on their recent talk pages from the last 2 months might call your comments about his supposedly exceptional work in question. Haleth (talk) 15:13, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • He was voted as number four contributor to NPP [1], a vote that was endorsed roundly by other NPP reviewers. With over 17,000 reviews in the past year. From my own experience, that's going to throw up some negatives - and I have personally found getting it right is by no means a walk in the park. A little breakage is inevitable - and he has broken, proportionately, a great deal less than I have so far. Like I say, NPP is a mucky job... Best Alexandermcnabb (talk) 15:55, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • That is not actually a vote, but a statistics tally of the quantity of reviews by each NPP member over the past year, not a vote of confidence on how consistently well each individual exercised their competence and judgment when reviewing flagged articles. Also, the endorsements I can see were for John B123 as reviewer of the year as put forward by the nominator. But I digress. Haleth (talk) 17:07, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• If an editor regularly is working in comic books they should know that the deletion of comic book character articles is controversial and so PROD is inappropriate. I see no evidence that AfD is being used inappropriately in this area. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 18:16, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I agree with assessments by Barkeep49 and Lev¡vich of the situation. I don't think the persistent, recurring use of PROD by Piotrus as an appropriate "test" of a subject article's notability because he is unable to discern the other user's rationale to be appropriate. Pretty sure that is what an AfD is for since we are all supposed to work by consensus. Haleth (talk) 15:13, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Here's a fresh example, from my daily patrol of today's AfD log. It's a character called Rocket. This was prodded by Piotrus in the usual drive-by way, with no discussion or specifics – just a generic, cookie-cutter nomination. The prod was declined by Iridescent, "I'm not comfortable considering uncontroversial the deletion of a page that's been live for 15 years and has that much of a history. ...". Piotrus then nominates the topic at AfD, where I find it.

I am not familiar with this character and so start searching. I immediately start finding hits: DC: 10 Things Fans Should Know About Rocket. This is a listicle but it's at CBR, which is usually accepted at AfD, and the fact they wrote solely about the character is a promising start. Focussing on Google Books, I immediately find some meat: The Blacker the Ink -- Constructions of Black Identity in Comics and Sequential Art where there's some detailed analysis of the controversy about the character's decision whether to have an abortion. This already seems adequate but I press on. I then immediately find another book: Black Superheroes, Milestone Comics, and Their Fans. This is from a university press and has plenty to say about the subject, as she was a breakout character in the series and effectively became its main protagonist.

I only searched for a minute or two, just looking at the first page of hits, and have stopped searching now as it is already apparent that the subject is quite notable. The character is not just a routine superhero, but is literally iconic in their representation of contemporary black culture. To nominate such a character for deletion in these times of BLM seems remarkably crass. To do so as "uncontroversial" using the PROD process demonstrates a considerable lack of competence and clue.

Andrew🐉(talk) 10:49, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For the editor who keeps persisting I need to show a link. How about this?. Does this summarize enough regarding the AFD's. Again I assume good faith again...it’s just that I am one editor and can’t rescue so many articles at once if I tried and could. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 13:36, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I just did a quick skim and I'm seeing pretty normal AfDs. I don't see any signs of disruptive behavior. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:56, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I didn’t say anything about disruptive and (as I said before) I am assuming good faith on them. I just think they are too persistent if anything. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 17:33, 20 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Too persistent isn't really a thing. Either someone's actions are disruptive at AfD such as by doing too many nominations in too short a time or doing too many poorly conceived nominations in which case the community can take action or their actions are not disruptive and no community action is needed. My assessment is tha the concern you've raised about AfD is not disruptive or otherwise a problem. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 06:16, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Either someone's actions are disruptive at AfD such as by doing too many nominations in too short a time or doing too many poorly conceived nominations" That's exactly the issue. Darkknight2149 07:34, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that's the alleged issue. And it is why I have, with the evidence at hand so far, not seen enough to say that there actually is a problem. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:13, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• I'm not sure why I was tagged here. If you're wanting my observations, I have already been vocal about it in the past. Fiction-related content has been an easy target for overzealous deletion. Part of it is that a lot of crufty material does fly under the radar in these areas, part of it is the aforementioned overzealousness, and part of it is a lack of familiarity (either with the subject itself or with deletion criteria). I don't see anything wrong in the examples that Jhenderson777 picked out above, but I have been continuously amazed at the lack of quality control at Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Fictional elements. For the past year or so, there has been an influx of low-effort nominations and votes (often from recurring nominators), many of which fail to cite a policy-based reason for deletion at all or fall under WP:IGNORINGATD. Common ones include "The article fails to establish notability" (not how it works), "The quality of the article/sourcing isn't good!" with no further rationale (not how it works), "It's just a minor character in a book" (this actually happened a couple of times in a row; not how it works), "When you combine a bunch of not notable characters into a list, you get a not notable list" (not how it works), "Current revision fails WAF and/or the manual of style" (not how it works), as well as recurring mischaracterisations of WP:GNG, subjective declarations of unimportance, assuming every article of a type isn't notable just because one wasn't, and barebones rationales.

There has also been a few recurring users (who double as nominators) who have been voting "delete" on every single nomination no matter what (usually with the same cookie cutter rationales), including on ones where significant coverage has been provided and there is a consensus for keep. At least one of them doesn't seem to have ever voted "keep" on anything, despite having been active on Wikipedia for years. That's not to say this doesn't ever happen in the other direction (Rtkat3 often votes "keep" without citing any policy besides "C'mon, let the article stay" and Andrew Davidson's input is hit-and-miss), but these are fewer and dismissed more often than the "delete" ones.

Aside from disruption, there is also a number of good faith nominations where a source check is performed, but the coverage is dismissed by the nom because they have a ridiculously high standard for "significant coverage" that outweighs the community's (Example1, Example2, among several others).

Overall, this is an AfD category that could use a lot more scrutiny and administrator eyeballs than it currently gets. Personally, the time I spend having to check and see if nominations there actually fail WP:GNG or a WP:DELREASON could honestly be better spent working on my other projects (this in particular is a current priority that has a lot of work to go) and my real life schedule can be sporadic. I did finish an ArbCom case related to this a few months back, but given the passage of time, haven't decided what to do with it quite yet. Darkknight2149 07:34, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• I too have experienced this type of thing for pages that might have potential and support the claims of @Jhenderson777: and @Andrew Davidson:. Another example of this is the List of New Gods which I mentioned that most of the characters who no longer have their pages currently redirect there and who knows what would happen to them if that page is deleted like what I had to do with the page for "Titan (New Gods)". On a related note for the proposed deletion, I had to redirect Ned Creegan to List of minor DC Comics characters when it was threatened with deletion. TTN once tried to put up the Longbow Hunters page that I created in light of their appearance of Arrow for a proposed deletion which got removed by @Toughpigs: who left his reasons in the edit summary. I'm also listing some examples of Jhenderson777's claim here. --Rtkat3 (talk) 16:43, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• The most important and effective thing to do is to add good sources to articles. There are lots of secondary sources in books and magazines about comics, cartoons and fiction in general. They're available on Google Books, Internet Archive, on Kindle, and in libraries and bookstores. The Wikipedia Library offers free access to Newspapers.com, JSTOR and ProQuest. People who want to save fiction-related articles should be improving articles with good-quality sources — and not just for articles that are prodded or up for deletion. Get a good nonfiction book about comics history and go through it page by page, adding a reference for everything discussed in the book. TwoMorrows Publishing is especially good for significant, independent coverage of comics history. For example, there was a little run a few months ago of people nominating articles related to Jack Kirby's work. Kirby has been extensively studied and discussed for years, including a long-running journal devoted just to his work. Many people added information and references to the articles, and we saved almost all of them from deletion, plus now they're better quality articles. — Toughpigs (talk) 17:29, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The onus is on nominators to cite a policy-based reason for deletion, per WP:ATD, WP:NEXIST, WP:ARTN, WP:PRESERVE, and WP:NOTCLEANUP. Not the other way around. Any user who is nominating a bunch of articles on the sole basis of them being poorly-written or poorly sourced is doing something wrong. What if we didn't do that, and still made the effort to clean-up/cite these articles? Because WP:NOEFFORT is no excuse. (And to be clear, I'm not talking about the number of legitimate nominations that have been filed, which goes without saying) Darkknight2149 19:38, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Worrying about who the onus is on is not the point. I've wasted time criticizing nominators in the past — the quote above criticizing Piotrus is mine, and I wish I hadn't written it, because it didn't make any difference. If you want articles not to be deleted, then the most effective way to do that is to find good sources, and add sourced information to the article. — Toughpigs (talk) 22:25, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I tend to believe that policy and procedure exists for a reason. Darkknight2149 23:15, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agree to disagree, ToughPigs. They want the character to be Mickey Mouse level apparently. Look at all the improvements Nightscream and I made at Umar (Marvel Comics). That article still didn’t change the deletionists mind. Especially TTN's mind which he called it "smoke and mirrors" on being notable. I mean the group deleted the Injustice League without my knowledge. A primary Justice League arch villain group. I and another editor cite dumped Cain and Abel just recently. But it still is “plot dump” outside of having brief publication history. Nothing is pleasing these editors mind due to Wp:GNG which doesn’t sound as strict as they make it out to be and also so many link of WP:NOTPLOT going on that you would think sock puppetry is almost going on. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 23:31, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Toughpigs, I agree with what you said and that is consistently the best approach when dealing with subject topics where notability is called into question. I think the crux of this discussion, and why Jhenderson777 got so worked up in starting this discussion in the first place, is whether Piotrus's conduct demonstrates that he adheres to this website's fundamental approach of assuming good faith from an objective point of view. I have not formed a view, though in some of his previous comments which have been highlighted by other users, he indicated that he does not know the rationales of other users and relies on his stance of presumed suspicion as a basis for his repeated (Jhenderson would argue that it is indiscriminate) use of PROD when questioned, even in cases where it may not be an uncontroversial deletion from a reasonable point of view. Perhaps both editors could reassess the objectivity of their approach when handling the issue of contentious deletion topics? Haleth (talk) 09:41, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If you really think socking is going on, SPI is thataway. Otherwise it just seems like you're throwing shade on people just for agreeing with each other and not with you. Reyk _YO! 11:09, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I said "almost" as in almost seems like it. It’s obvious my discussion here wasn’t originally about that. Yikes man! I am well aware of where to go to. There isn’t enough substantial evidence and again I assume good faith that it isn’t sock puppetry. Sounds like you are throwing shade at me and you really need assume good faith as well. Geez! Your comments seem kind of random and baity IMO LOL. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 12:44, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes Haleth. People are reading too much of what I say. If you look at the title it even says “good faith”. Yet Piotrus pointed out that guideline like I am not adhering to it. Like what? Are you not reading my comments or are they not clear. Being on the spectrum it wouldn’t surprise me if I am not clear. But in good faith just let me know then. Also I assume good faith..and I do believe some articles should be deleted/redirected while some shouldn’t. Those I normally did not vote on because I knew the AFD would do its thing so I was a silent majority. So I am not always an inclusionist and disagreeing with the deletionists. The most bad faith thing I could think of to say is I do feel like these AFD's are being treated like cleanup which is a no-no. Also just advising to slow down the process because inclusionists MIGHT want to help save the articles but too many to save would be stressing for them. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 14:19, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It is kind of weird that nobody even pretends to follow WP:BEFORE these days, and that faliure to meet GNG is just taken as read when nominating and making delete votes. Artw (talk) 03:03, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I am concerned with the behaviour of User:Jack Morales Garcia edit warring at several pages with regards to nationality/citizenship disputes. Neither of us are over 3RR but it is getting ridiculous now especially at Vito Rizzuto. He’s been notified of WP:BRD and edit warring several times but fails to take anything to the talk pages and just badgers me on mine. The burden is on him to change the status quo, not edit war. I don’t know what else to do at this point. Thanks for any help. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 15:29, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi I'm Concerned with the behaviour of user:Vaselineeeeeeee this has reached the extent of lying. He has mentioned me in this saying that I have been tenaciously editing without informing on talk page but you can match the revision dates and the messages on the user and my talk page. For a while this user has been with irrationally compulsive tenacity editing pages without replying with coherence. I've given plausibility and have coherently stated reasons for the reversions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Morales Garcia (talk • contribs) 15:44, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm combining these as they are the same issues. I see that an Admin, User:Valereee, warned you about your statement on your talk page " I simply find feminists and obstinate people repulsive." Make that two Admins as User:Bishonen warned you about the same thing. Valereee and User:Davey2010 were also concerned about your edits on nationality as was User:Srich32977 who warned you about not using sources. And you told Vaselineeeeee" Leave this page to me. If you ever want to get back at this topic. You send a message coherently stating reasons. And if they are coherent we can change. But for the time being. Leave this." And in an edit summary, "Incoherent explanation, listen vase. You have to leave this because I'm tenacious". You focus on nationality, but "Nationality is fidelity, and Italian American is an ethnicity. And his fidelity in analogy of italy was by far with the states, his birthplace should not intervene and out of respect for servicemen. We should regard him as an American" is original research. Another edit summary of yours says "Nationality cannot be dualistic" - absolutely wrong, I hold dual nationality - that article starts with "Nationality is a legal identification of a person in international law, establishing the person as a subject, a national, of a sovereign state. It affords the state jurisdiction over the person and affords the person the protection of the state against other states." Finally, you're saying you aren't obstinate? Really?Doug Weller talk 16:40, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Talk page responses to warnings and concerns shows clear battleground mentality and ownership beliefs. They seem to think they are final authority on what a page should say and that it is on the community to convince them otherwise. Perhaps a time out is needed for them to review WP:Consensus, WP:BRD, and WP:OWN. Being discourteous isn't a mortal sin here but gatekeeping articles certainly is. Slywriter (talk) 16:54, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• In 118 edits JMG has received seven talk warnings from five different editors. —valereee (talk) 17:05, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I've messaging on talk pages to states reasons and I've given plausible reasons for reversion and yet the said user reverts without giving any plausible reasons. And all the admins have came up with is recalling my history of mistakes. I mean at least review why I did a specific thing. You can see that the user said I've been tenaciously editing without any reasons. Yet the reasons are in his and my talk page. At least check them out and review his behaviour before you come to me with past reports. Please I beg you to review the my and the mentioned user's talk page and my explanation for reasons on Vincenzo Capone and Vito Rizzuto. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jack Morales Garcia (talk • contribs) 09:19, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Moving this here. Jack Morales Garcia, please don't start new sections, respond in this one, and please sign your posts by using four tildes like this: ~~~~. —valereee (talk) 10:40, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• JMG, we don't settle content disputes here. We deal with behavior issues, and you're exhibiting one. You are insisting, apparently through original research, that people's stated nationality adhere to what you believe about how nationality works. In order to change a person's stated nationality, you need a reliable source for their nationality, not simply your own knowledge of who should and shouldn't be considered Italian American or whatever. You've started using article talk, which is good (stop discussing articles at user talk, the discussion should be at the article talk).

I did check your last article talk post, and it said Italian citizenship could be lost: By a man or woman, being of competent legal age (21 years if before 10 March 1975 or 18 years if after 9 March 1975), who of his or her own volition naturalised in another country and resided outside of Italy. Nationality: is the state of being part of a nation whether by birth or naturalization Emphasis on 'naturalization'. Why is James Vincenzo Capone referred to as Italian in the nationality column, despite not having Italian citizenship, While Michael Franzese, of italian descent is only referred to as American. Despite both being Italian American regardless of Birthplace. That seems to have zero to do with James Vincenzo Capone but instead is a general statement of knowledge. That's not good enough. Please go to WP:Teahouse for help learning how WP works. —valereee (talk) 10:49, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Without going through the various disagreements, just in case it helps I'll just drop a link to MOS:CONTEXTBIO here, which sets out how we should refer to the nationality of subjects in our leads for BLPs. It's pretty straightforward, and might help frame any talk page discussions about these issues. I'll also note that I share the concern about JMG's comments last month about feminists, and would support a block if he ever makes a similar comment again; that kind of conduct is not conducive to effective collaboration. GirthSummit _(blether) 11:57, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Last year ARBCOM revised ARBPIA to state clearly that non-ECP accounts and IPs could not take part in noticeboard discussions, AfDs, RfCs, etc. I added ECP to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/West Bank bantustans which had been brought to this noticeboard because of concerns about its being contentious.[3] Following this User:Onceinawhile alerted me to this edit[4] by User:Free1Soul. It was their 512th edit. Now they never received any alerts, but until they got over 500 they avoided virtually all articles relevant to ARBPIA, but over several months they did a series of what looks like semi-automated edits, sometimes 4 in one minute. Half of the 500 were done this month, with 183 done on November 3rd between 15:21 and 17:38, ie in 138 minutes.

I'm not suggesting that this was done to participate in the AfD, in fact I'm sure it wasn't as the issue hadn't been mentioned by the time the editor reached 500 and there seems to be little understanding about ARBPIA restrictions in regard to discussion boards etc. My issue is that this sort of semi-automatic editing seems to break the spirit and even more the purpose of the restrictions, which I think were made on the assumption that 500 normal edits would give an editor time to learn more about our guidelines and policies.

It may seem a bit unfair to single one editor out, but I'm pretty sure that this isn't the only case in which this has happened. I could have taken it to ARBCOM as a clarification but I thought it best to ask here at AN (not ANI). Doug Weller talk 12:16, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Are their rapid edits net-beneficial? If they're using semi-automated edits that aren't beneficial but instead to speed them to 500, that's gaming. If it's 500 (mostly) beneficial rapid edits which just gets them to EC before we might otherwise like, that's just a minor defect in the system but not any editor's fault and not warranting action Nosebagbear (talk) 12:40, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(non-admin comment) A quick spot check of some of their contributions shows nothing indicating bad-faith in my opinion. Lots of gnomy edits which is probably why they were editing so fast but no POV pushing, vandalism or other bad behavior. Regarding but until they got over 500 they avoided virtually all articles relevant to ARBPIA considering in my vague memories that area is chockfull of warnings and ECP that isn't that abnormal. Asartea ^{Talk Contributions} 13:05, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(haven't looked at the edits but) Indeed, avoiding ARBPIA until 500 edits is what a user in theory should be doing, no? ~ Amory (u • t • c) 16:46, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't checked the edits, but the principle should be simple: if the 500 edits were all intended to improve the encyclopedia, even in small ways, this is 100% legitimate. Edits to improve the encyclopedia include fixing spelling or punctuation mistakes, adding or removing PROD tags, participating in any discussion, etc. 147.161.9.245 (talk) 16:30, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Could we also get an adminstrator to take a quick look at the AFD and consider collapsing some of the discussions. There is an excess of verbiage, some of which is mine, that is not helpfull in getting users to comment. And maybe a quitet word to a couple users,one of which is probably me, that they have said enough in the AFD and more than made their point.AlmostFrancis (talk) 18:36, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Is there anywhere on Wikipedia -- or any way to generate -- a list of indef-blocked or site-banned editors? I'm thinking that a chronological list of this sort would be helpful in identifying sockpuppets who begin editing shortly after their puppetmaster is blocked. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:01, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You could start with Special:BlockList and select the box for 'hide temporary blocks'. EdJohnston (talk) 23:13, 22 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The list would be far too large to be useful. Asking at WP:VPT might find someone able to write an SQL query (WP:QUARRY) that lists indef-blocked users in a range of block dates, provided the user had x edits (maybe 100 edits or more). Or, where the user was created x months before the block date (maybe 6 months or more). Johnuniq (talk) 02:38, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure Quarry would time out. Praxidicae (talk) 02:39, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For reference, there was a list of banned users, but it was deleted via an MFD discussion in 2014. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 02:55, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, on the 8th deletion discussion, the decision was to delete. Perpetually contentious. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 03:15, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder if remaking it, but requiring that it only include the names and and a link to the ban discussions, would be useful. Although indef-blocked editors are not the same as site-banned ones. -- Rockstone^{[Send me a message!]} 07:01, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

https://quarry.wmflabs.org/query/50007 is the 10,000 most recently indef hardblocked editors. Too much more takes too long. Knock yourself out. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 03:18, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks to all. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:37, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Wow, 10,000 and the list doesn't even get back to 2019! Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:52, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

An other option is to load the URL https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:BlockList&offset=20201122000000%7C10196617&wpTarget=&wpOptions%5B0%5D=tempblocks&blockType=&wpFormIdentifier=blocklist and fix the date in the URL to the end of the timeframe you're interested in. 109.186.211.111 (talk) 06:38, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• OK, interesting, I'll give it a try. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:23, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• N R Pavan Kumar (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
• UTRS appeal #37112
• Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/N_R_Pavan_Kumar/Archive#24_July_2019

This user was blocked on April 1, 2017 by @Favonian: for suspected sock puppetry. @SpacemanSpiff: removed TPA January 2018. They are globally locked since March 2018, so their appeal must be carried from UTRS to here. To ask the stewards to be unlocked, they must first successfully appeal their block locally. I quote below.

Hi there, Myself Pavan. My username is "N R Pavan Kumar" I got blocked globally and banned since, past 4 years. Because of creating multiple accounts, Creating spam wikis and citing irrelevant source to the wikipedia. After 2019, I understood the concept and guidelines of wikipedia and policy so that I didn't create any accounts in wikipedia since 2019. So, kindly I'm requesting you to unblock and unban me in wikipedia. I promise you here after I will not create multiple accounts, spam wikis and I will never cite irrelevant source to the wikipedia. I'm begging you. Please permit me.

What's your pleasure? --Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:44, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose. I count more than 30 sockpuppet accounts. This editor knew what they were doing and deliberately set up sockpuppet accounts repeatedly to evade their block. This hasn't been properly addressed in this unblock request. --Yamla (talk) 11:03, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose even if we accepted everything in the appeal as true, this appeal statement shows such obvious WP:CIR issues that a re-block would be extremely likely. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• hell no in short, they have never contributed anything of value and have cross-wiki socked to the tune of hundreds of accounts. Net negative, no point. Praxidicae (talk) 17:03, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. This appeal, like its predecessors on User talk:N R Pavan Kumar, is just inane parrotting of WP:GAB. As pointed out above, the editor's actions make clear that there's no prospect of them ever being of any use to Wikipedia. Favonian (talk) 17:51, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. It's been a while so I'm not going to comment on the unblock request. I'll just say that this sockfarm has been a time sink for at least a couple of years. —SpacemanSpiff 01:22, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose - the user's extensive history of using sockpuppets to evade an indefinite block makes them a net negative to the project. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:40, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: With the current attitude to the project, you're joking, right? --93.78.35.45 (talk) 11:39, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Oppose. Extensive long term history of sockpuppetry. The only substantive contributions here from any of his sock accounts seem to be attempts to create spam/promotional articles about himself, traces of which can still be found in some page history logs, e.g.[5]. IMO he should be told that he can appeal to UTRS again no earlier than in 6 months time from now and that to have any hope for the next appeal to be taken more seriously, he'd have to do two things. First, provide a clear and articulate statement that he promises not to try to use Wikipedia for spamming and self-promotional purposes; and to make clear that this requirement applies to all namespaces, including articles, drafts, userpages, user talk pages, etc. Second, explain in detail what his plans for Wikipedia editing are, what kind of topics he plans to edit on, what kind of article he plans to create, if any, etc. Nsk92 (talk) 01:27, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• {neutral} same reasoning as for TPA removal and per opposes above. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 18:06, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support indefinitely or in the alternative, for a period of time not less than six months. --Yamla (talk) 21:28, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Support indefinitely. Nothing good will come from this. RickinBaltimore (talk) 17:56, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: How on earth will they ever have any ways of appealing their block. Should leave them at least 1 option. --93.78.35.45 (talk) 22:11, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And that is the problem with UTRS bans. And that is why I brought it here instead of acting on my own. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 23:19, 24 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak oppose, per Deepfriedokra. Unless folks from UTRS indicate that they want a UTRS ban in this case, I'd leave this one channel open for now. (But if he abuses the process with appeals that are too frequent then a UTRS ban would make sense.) Also, perhaps it's just morbid curiosity, but I sort of want to know if all these desperate pleas are motivated by more than the desire to have another go at creating a G11 article or user page about himself. Nsk92 (talk) 01:33, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  @Nsk92: RickinBaltimore, Yamla, and I are UTRS admins. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:56, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  This is appellant's third UTRS request. There were ~seven on their talk page. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 01:59, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I see, thanks. Changing to Neutral then. Nsk92 (talk) 02:03, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

When were the last 2 UTRS appeals made? ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 20:24, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@ProcrastinatingReader: UTRS appeal #20308 closed 2018-01-12. UTRS appeal #35771 closed 2020-10-11. UTRS appeal #37112 (current) opened 2020-11-12 . --Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:41, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• If users want to support it, it should be confirmed from ArbCom that they will take over future appeals.--GZWDer (talk) 13:46, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Would love policy guidance on that aspect. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 16:06, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• imo: It seems unlikely, from the poll above, that this editor will be unblocked, even with a SO-like appeal. However, perhaps Template:2nd chance is a feasible route to an unblock? I'm currently questioning whether they'd actually pass the process, but at least it remains an option of redemption, ability to show they're willing, and competently able, to contribute to something other than their own self-promo. It's probably worth leaving the door open to them should they actually wish to try that. If their next UTRS request is something other than such a contribution, then indeff. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 22:49, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  Ow. That's a tough one. I'm not sure I could pass it. --Deepfriedokra (talk) 22:52, 25 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There've been accusations of edit-warring at Emily W. Murphy; I believe the removals were exempt from 3RR because of perceived BLP violations, but I'd appreciate a few more eyes on it to make sure I and ProcrastinatingReader are correct in our interpretation. —valereee (talk) 11:48, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

From my initial review, I'd agree that the weight of sources do not support the accusations being made and that the discussion on the talk page about better sourcing being needed is correct. Therefore it would be covered under the 3RR exemption. Out of an abundance of caution, I have full protected the article for a couple days noting that Feoffer has said that they won't add it back in. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:02, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good day sir/ma My name is Ogedengbe Israel Olamide Popularly known as Mide, A Nigerian blogger, programmer, student too. I'd like to upload my profile on Wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by Israel Ogedengbe (talk • contribs) 20:22, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Israel Ogedengbe This would be better suited at the Help Desk, but Wikipedia does not have "profiles", Wikipedia has articles. If you want to make a profile, use social media. Wikipedia is interested in what independent reliable sources say about you, not what you want to say about yourself. 331dot (talk) 20:27, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done Wikipedia is not a form of social media. We have no profiles here, only articles written by impartial third parties about topics already notable enough to merit an article in a global encyclopedia. If you ever become sufficiently notable, somebody other than yourself may be moved to create such an article. In the meantime, something like MySpace or Facebook is closer to your purposes. --Orange Mike | Talk 20:29, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikieditor19920 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) was already under a partial block from the closely-related Andy Ngo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (whose major target is Antifa), and continues to conduct debate via edit summaries not on Talk, and has been engaging in apparently tendentious editing at Antifa (united States) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) so I have added Antifa to he pageblock and extended it. This is in lieu of requesting an AP2 TBAN, which I think is defensible based on the lack of introspection displayed at user talk:Wikieditor19920 in response to the original pageblock, and noted by several well respected and calm editors, but I think we should be engaging in minimally aggressive controls right now due to the US political situation and associated elevated emotions. I encourage review and discussion of this, and this is without prejudice to action against Bacondrum, who is absolutely not blameless here. I noted this at WP:ANEW where the original complaint is lodged. I suspect Bacondrum may also need some kind of restriction here - it's getting silly. Guy (help! - typo?) 00:33, 26 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]