July 2[edit]

I'd like some decent independent WP:RS about what this org is.[1][2][3]. They have a website, but my browser don't think I should go there. Mentioned at List of active separatist movements in Africa. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:51, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From a quick look it seems to be an initiative created by Ebenezer Akwanga, a separatist from Cameroon who has lived in exile in Nigeria, hence probably the mention in Nigerian sources you link. Whether it is much of a movement, or just an internet platform connecting activists, I am less able to tell. Newsweek reports it is operating from the US. CMD (talk) 10:28, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Found something:[4] Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:45, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article Calculator spelling says 8. But this page http://www.hakank.org/upside_down_number_words says 9. Who is right?? Georgia guy (talk) 21:49, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Uppercase “B” is 8

Lowercase “b” is 9

Blueboar (talk) 22:04, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Blueboar, that's not what the Wikipedia article says. It says 9 is G. Georgia guy (talk) 23:07, 2 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You do understand that you are asking for definitive answers about what is basically modern folklore? You might as well ask whether the song is actually hokey-cokey or hokey-pokey. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 00:59, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It may be that there is a “calculator generation” gap in play, between the blockier “font” of old calculators, and more modern ones that have a more rounded “font”. But ask anyone who was a child in the 1960s what 5319009 spelled when you turned your calculator upside down, and they knew the answer was “bOObIES”… it was the height of 6 year old humor! Blueboar (talk) 01:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the 1980s it was 5318008. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 01:28, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looked at the diagram in our article… and realized that the 9 depicted there has a horizontal bar at the bottom… the calculator I had in the 60s did not. This may account for the difference in tradition. Blueboar (talk) 01:37, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Upside down, "9" turns into a "6', which in calculator spelling is a lowercase "b".  --Lambiam 08:11, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A half rotation of a calculator 9 produces Б, at least on Casio and Texas Instruments models. At least in my memory, which is incredibly faulty. Folly Mox (talk) 11:10, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 4[edit]

I couldn't find any info on the History of pre-electricity lighting in India, Indoor Lighting, Outdoor Lighting, Street lighting, Commercial Building lighting, Royal Residence lighting, Residential lighting, the various equipment used, fuels used, historic records, illustrated historic references like engravings. 2405:201:F00B:3879:D464:2331:428A:6F4D (talk) 07:28, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ordinary people often used Oil lamps, as was done in various parts of the world, though an Indian variation on the theme was that Ghee was often used in the lamp. See Diya (lamp), Nilavilakku, and Nachiarkoil lamp... AnonMoos (talk) 16:41, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Bombay Lights: Gas Light and the Transition to a Modern City (for access, ask at Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request or you may be able to access through the The Wikipedia Library)

Contested nightscapes: Illuminating colonial Bombay

Alansplodge (talk) 22:05, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You may also be interested in the Journal of Gas Lighting (p. 139) which has a report of an 1855 proposal by the Oriental Gas Company to install the first gas lighting in Calcutta. It points out that "public and private" exterior oil lamps in the city cost over £65,000 annually. Alansplodge (talk) 22:18, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Did/does India have candles? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:34, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are bears catholic? Does the pope... nah. Try "History of Wax-Candles in India (AD 1500–1900)" (ex-jstor) or our History of candle making. MinorProphet (talk) 22:59, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just wondered, because no one had mentioned something so obvious as candles. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 00:35, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In this interview, at the end of 1982, Anthony Burgess mentions having been to "a big magazine conference in Puerto Rico. I had to address the audience there, and being Americans they had to begin every morning with a jog. Two people died of heart failure on this jog who were younger than I. They tried to persuade me to go along on this jog. But in the tropics? In the tropics, even at 6.30 am? Oh no. A couple of people collapsed and apparently died, at least they disappeared. Whether they’re being artificially supported somewhere I don’t know." So what was the conference and who died, or was disappeared? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 19:08, 4 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The inventory of the Anthony Burgess Papers held at the Harry Ransom Center mentions, under "Index of Correspondents", "American Magazine Conference".^[5] Online sources mention an American Magazine Conference, held in October 2005 in Puerto Rico. These annual conferences were organized by the Magazine Publishers Association, founded in 1919. Perhaps an earlier installment was also held in Puerto Rico.  --Lambiam 07:17, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just want to point out that "death by jogging" was a huge meme in the 1980s. I think it started way before that, but given the historical popularity of jogging as a cultural phenomenon, it was widespread. If you’re too young to know what I’m even talking about, then watch Forrest Gump. Viriditas (talk) 01:26, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A famous example is Jim Fixx, 1984, who (iirc) took up running – and promoting running – because multiple relatives died young of heart disease. —Tamfang (talk) 20:11, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 5[edit]

Can a label as used now, like constructionism or textualism or pragmatism or "living constitution"alism or originalism be applied to John Marshall's philosophy on the U.S. Constitution? From the article on John Marshall I copied this quotation, but I'm not sure how moden labels would apply:

"To say that the intention of the instrument must prevail; that this intention must be collected from its words; that its words are to be understood in that sense in which they are generally used by those for whom the instrument was intended; that its provisions are neither to be restricted into insignificance, nor extended to objects not comprehended in them, nor contemplated by its framers—is to repeat what has been already said more at large, and is all that can be necessary."

Rich (talk) 04:14, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

To me, this sounds like words spoken by an originalist. Marshall may at the same time have been a strict constructionist; the quotation does not speak to this question.  --Lambiam 06:34, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Over a month ago, I came across a web series called Ghee Happy which portrayed characters based on Hindu deities. The theme song describes the four protagonists (who are depicted as schoolchildren) as follows:

Ganesha! He likes to eat!
Ganesha: Sweet!
Kali! She likes to scare!
Kali: [makes a roaring noise at a lion]
Krishna! He likes to play!
Krishna: All day!
Saraswati, super smart!
Saraswati: I like music, books and art. My friends call me Swati!

However, I've found out that in a Hindu context, Svati usually refers to either one of the wives of the Moon or the nakshatra associated with Arcturus, so I believe the "my friends call me Swati" part of the theme song may have just been one of the artistic liberties taken by the producers. (along with Kartikeya being Ganesha's big brother, Dvaraka being held up by balloons, and Ravana being 3 years old in Krishna's time, to name a few other examples) – MrPersonHumanGuy (talk) 12:58, 5 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Saraswati gives better blessings in long run than Lakshmi..."--Shirt58 (talk) 🦘 02:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 6[edit]

There's an article in today's Wall Street Journal regarding a controversy over the Clotilda, supposedly the last slave ship to reach the United States, in around 1859-60. A historian, Erik Calonius, claims that the slave voyage was a hoax, and the last slaver to reach the US was actually the Wanderer in 1858.

Our article on the Clotilda does not mention the controversy, which may be fair enough; Calonius himself seems to acknowledge that this is the standard narrative and it wasn't clear to me from the article how much traction the theory has gotten in the historian community.

But one point caught my eye: The article says that Booker T. Washington claimed that the last slave ship to reach Mobile, Alabama was the Lawrence, in 1862 (later than both the above dates). I can't find the Lawrence in our list of slave ships, and my Googling has not turned up much. Does anyone know anything about this Lawrence? --Trovatore (talk) 19:27, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

People exist today directly descended from both Clotilda slaves and Clotilda enslavers, so I don't really understand how anyone who's watched The Order of Myths could think it's a hoax... AnonMoos (talk) 20:26, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The article goes into some detail (not a lot, but some) on Calonius's reasons for thinking it was a hoax. I'm not qualified to evaluate that aspect of it, at least not without a lot more work than I actually plan to put into it. --Trovatore (talk) 20:34, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Story of Slavery p. 17. It might be worth investigating Cornelia Lawrence 1854 New York for Lawrence, Giles & Co. She apparently hauled passengers Liverpool to New York but burned 2 Nov. 1858 in Mobile Bay under mysterious circumstance while carrying a cargo of hay? Pretty thin tho. fiveby(zero) 02:19, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oops article is referring to Washington in ‘’The Story of the Negro’’ p. 104 Two different stories and each seems unlikely. fiveby(zero) 03:56, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, 5/0. While Washington makes an unqualified claim that slaves were landed in 1862, it's surrounded by various "It is said" and "I have been told" kind of anecdotes, so I agree this doesn't seem like much to go on. --Trovatore (talk) 05:40, 7 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems extremely unlikely. Mobile was under blockade in 1862, and the Confederate efforts to get cargo through it relied heavily on the British Empire both to build ships in the UK and harbour them in the Caribbean. Hard to see them risking winding up the Brits by trying to ship slaves, or using up valuable cargo space that could be used to ship military supplies. Chuntuk (talk) 08:38, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 8[edit]

The earlier discussion here about auguries from intestines brought back a vague memory of a haruspex finding an appalling sign (deformity/wormy) but the people pressing ahead with the significant project nonetheless, only to end in disaster. I've been Googling for it without luck, probably because I can't remember if it's the Romans or some other ancient people, and I can't remember if it was for a battle or something else. Does this ring a bell with anyone? It's also entirely possible I read it in fiction! --Dweller (talk) Old fashioned is the new thing! 10:49, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This book [6] seems to have a few pointers in that general direction (p. 112), maybe your episode is covered there? Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:57, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We have articles on Omen (ancient Rome), Augury, and Augur, but only a relatively generic aticle on Haruspex. -- AnonMoos (talk) 16:24, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like Marcus Licinius Crassus and the Battle of Carrhae. There were said to be numerous omens against the undertaking; see Plutarch's Parallel Lives on Crassus [7]. A couple of examples:

• The seers, also, quietly let it become known that the omens for Crassus which came from their sacrifices were always bad and inauspicious. But Crassus paid no heed to them, nor to those who advised anything else except to press forward.
• And finally, when he p375 was making the customary sacrifice of purification for the army, and the seer placed the viscera in his hands, he let them fall to the ground; then, seeing that the bystanders were beyond measure distressed at the occurrence, he smiled and said: "Such is old age; but no weapon, you may be sure, shall fall from its hands."

There's also Publius Claudius Pulcher (consul 249 BC) throwing the sacred chickens into the sea, which is a memorable episode although it's not the one you're looking for. --Amble (talk) 16:39, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Amble that's terrific and interesting, but I'm looking for an occasion when the entrails were disgusting in some way and plainly foretold disaster to everyone who saw them, rather than a procedural glitch like that. I might need to go backwards, looking at notable Roman calamities like the Varus disaster. --Dweller (talk) Old fashioned is the new thing! 07:28, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 9[edit]

I am reading "A Fragment of Life" by Arthur Machen. Darnell, who is (or thinks he is) a clerk in the City, "was indeed almost in the position of the man in the tale, who, by a sudden electric shock, lost the vision of the things about him in the London streets, and gazed instead upon the sea and shore of an island in the Antipodes". What is the tale that the man was in? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 00:07, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know, but I hope it's not excessively pedantic to point out that the literal 180° antipodes of the great majority of land on earth (including London) is deep ocean, as can be seen in File:Antipodes LAEA.png etc... -- AnonMoos (talk) 01:24, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The term the Antipodes (used as a proper noun, with a capital A) may refer rather loosely to the southern hemisphere. This corresponds to the sense of Ancient Greek ἀντίποδες, a plural, which did not have the restricted meaning of a precise location. Then there are the Antipodes Islands, often referred to as just "the Antipodes".^[8][9][10] Possibly, the gazed-upon island was one of the numerous islets of the Antipodes Islands.  --Lambiam 06:21, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes indeed, "a little rock to the south of Antipodes Island". I'm pretty sure the story Machen referred to must be H. G. Wells's "The Remarkable Case of Davidson's Eyes" (1895). --Antiquary (talk) 07:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, that looks like it must be it. DuncanHill (talk) 19:32, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What were some of the consequences from that formal announcement in 1793? Afrazer123 (talk) 20:50, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See: Proclamation of Neutrality, which discusses it. Blueboar (talk) 21:00, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm trying to put together a biography of Will Spens in my sandbox, but I don't have access to newspapers.com so it's slow going. One thing I'm still trying to track down is an award that was informally referred to as the "New York City Civilian Heroism Award", which he received. My guess is that it goes by another name, which is why I can't find any mention of it. I suspect there is some kind of coverage of Spens getting the award on newspapers.com through the Wikipedia Library, but I can't look. Viriditas (talk) 22:34, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Viriditas: Perhaps it is the Bronze Medallion? If you need access to sources, try WP:RX RudolfRed (talk) 01:58, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that’s what I thought too, but I couldn’t find a historical list of all medal recipients. The subject would have won the award some time between 1970 and 1990. Viriditas (talk) 02:09, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 10[edit]

(For clarification, a mouse story is defined as a story with talking animals that is centered on mice.)

We know that cats are often associated with evil in mouse stories. I understand why this is standard. But dogs in mouse stories sometimes represent the need to save mice from cats. Is this logical?? Do dogs often save mice from cats in real life?? If not, then why is it standard in mouse stories for dogs to be used to save mice from cats?? (I want an answer from someone who is a real expert on mouse stories.) Georgia guy (talk) 15:36, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you wait for "a real expert on mouse stories" here you could be waiting a long time. Some examples would help. Recalling Tom and Jerry I would suggest that the dog is more interested in getting at the cat, and the consequent saving of the mouse is incidental to that. Shantavira|^{feed me} 15:44, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True for some episodes, but not all. In “The bodyguard”, the motivation of Spike the dog is to help Jerry, and hurting Tom is secondary. – b_jonas 09:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC) [reply]

The creators of the North Korean Squirrel and Hedgehog animated cartoon (semi-notorious among some anime fans) apparently worked out a whole elaborate theory of allegorically good and evil animals... AnonMoos (talk) 16:07, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There's also Maus, of course. AnonMoos (talk) 19:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the Krazy Kat stories, a dog tries to protect a cat from a mouse.  --Lambiam 20:52, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. That strip was a weird kind of love triangle. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:05, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do dogs often save mice from cats in real life??

Surprisingly, this is a good question, it is easier for some breeds of pet dogs to be friends with pet rodents in the home than it is for cats, which appear to naturally want to hunt, torture, and consume them. Obviously, there are some breeds of dogs that will do this too, but there's lot of people who have dogs that don't kill mice, while cats are more prone to just freaking out and getting murder-ish. My guess is that the trope of dogs saving mice from cats arose from this, but is also a way to show that dogs are friendlier and more social with people, and by extension with other animals. Let's also remember the most important thing: in the last 9,000 years, cats were not domesticated like dogs, hence their wild predilection. Viriditas (talk) 21:28, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The notion of "good" mice as victims of "evil" cats is opposite of reality: mice are pests, and cats help get rid of them. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:51, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

From the human point of view (cats were originally tolerated around human settlements because they preyed on rodents who ate stored grain). AnonMoos (talk) 19:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Don't Panic! The Magratheans are intradimensional beings who take the physical form of mice. What you call "pests" are responsible for building and maintaining the Earth. Be nice to them, they are working on computuational problems of such complexity your puny human mind can't possibly comprehend. Viriditas (talk) 21:40, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Although not directly related to the question, altruism in animals may be of interest here. Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:17, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For an alternative view, see Ratter (dog). DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 18:39, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This image, charmingly, has a hieroglyphic document within a hieroglyphic document. Are there any more examples like this? Temerarius (talk) 17:36, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Charming as the image may be, I question the characterization as being nested. The image is that of a scribe holding a document with a text. The image is accompanied by an image caption, a brief text explaining the image. As was then usual, such a caption was not placed above or below the image frame, but written inside it (like film subtitles today, but with a freer placement). In this case, the whole is a wall painting; classifying it as a document is stretching the concept.  --Lambiam 21:06, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well they're at different scales, and it's interesting anyway. Why can't a wall painting be a document? Temerarius (talk) 04:47, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it can. The Wiktionary entry's definitions 2 and 4 do, I think, cover such wall paintings.

I am also not certain whether the 'caption' to which Lambiam refers actually is the black on white script, or the (more usual) coloured script below it. I would have interpreted the former as part of the illustration: however, not being conversant in heiroglyphics or ancient Egyptian, I cannot tell. Any Egyptologists present? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.82.201 (talk) 06:50, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I meant the larger coloured hieroglyphs. The white object is part of the depicted scene: a scribe holding up a result of his labour.  --Lambiam 14:58, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In which case, how is that depicted result, a document written in hieroglyphs, not nested within another document, the painting, also (partly) written in hieroglyphs, as Temerarius originally observed?

Tangentially, do you consider mediaeval illuminated manuscripts to be documents? Some of them also include illustrations of documents, which would also be 'nested'. The substrate of a document, whether parchment or wall, is surely unimportant. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.82.201 (talk) 08:38, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consider the document shown here to the right. Is this an example of a document in Oriental characters within a document in Oriental characters?  --Lambiam 13:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, is there a paragraph about sex in Caesar's Commentarii de Bello Civili? My father told me it was censored at school in early '50s.-- Carnby (talk) 22:09, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can only say that there was no such paragraph extant in the small section of the work I studied in the late '60s, but as it was about the Siege of Massilia, one wouldn't have expected it to.

Certainly Latin school textbooks could be censored in such a way. I recall our Latin master reading us one of Horace's Odes that was, along with a few others, excluded from the copies available to us impressionable lads. It mentioned a slave being forced to bugger his master and "meeting yesterday's dinner coming the other way." Possibly III.6? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.6.82.201 (talk) 08:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's Juvenal Satire IX. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 17:36, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

His edition may have said something like "edited for the use of schools" which while it could mean "with any passages that might embarrass the masters removed" but could also mean "with an index and a gloss of the hard bits". DuncanHill (talk) 10:14, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing to do with Caesar, but when I was taking an undergraduate Latin class about reading the poems of Catullus, there were only 3 or 4 students in the class, and we didn't all use the same book, and in the edition used by one of the students some lines of one of Catullus's poems was omitted! This was not a book intended for high school students, and not necessarily a textbook as such (probably more of scholarly edition), and likely published after the 1950s, but it was still censored to some degree... AnonMoos (talk) 12:24, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 11[edit]

There seems to be some important ruling/update from Supreme Court of India about 'Maintenance for dependent' (specially rights of divorcee women) including under section 125 of Indian CRPc code. (Ref)

My primary google search and understanding suggests, "Section 144" under new Bharatiya Nagarik Suraksha Sanhita (BNSS) replaces earlier section 125 of Indian CRPc code since July 1, 2024.

Help I am requesting is

1) Present WP article seems to provides this link to BNSS law

There may have been versions prior to Parliament passed the final bill, my wish is confirm the link WP article is accurate enough. Please help confirm accuracy of above given link as presently applicable BNSS law in India.

2) Please also give links of en WP articles related to 'Maintenance for dependent Law' (incl. Women) to confirm updates to the relevant articles.

3) I am just curious if en WP has any non-country specific general articles relating 'Maintenance for dependent'

Thanks Bookku (talk) 05:33, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's more commonly known as Alimony and/or Child support. In India in the 1980s, there was the infamous Shah Bano case (there doesn't seem to be much about it in Wikipedia), where Muslims held numerous protests and rallies against the idea that Muslim divorced wives were entitled to alimony... AnonMoos (talk) 08:13, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the States of America which first cousin with opposite sex cannot merry, can first cousin with same sex merry? For first cousin with same sex, genetics isn't even an issue. I only know that for Illinois, the answer is “no”, see [11] and [12], but how about the other 30 States of America which first cousin with opposite sex cannot merry? 2402:7500:92C:19CD:A1F0:F846:FD54:2CEF (talk) 09:47, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They can certainly "merry" if they're of a mind to. Whether they can marry is likely to vary by state - of which there are 50, not 30. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:55, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See Mary-marry-merry merger. Alansplodge (talk) 13:38, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia has an article on that. See: Cousin marriage law in the United States. Blueboar (talk) 13:06, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I can see that article doesn't mention same-sex marriages at all, which is what they are asking about. Obviously not all the considerations are the same. Johnbod (talk) 13:35, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It may not be explicitly mentioned in the laws of particular states. If one law states that first cousins cannot marry (without clarifying language on the sexes of the couple) and another law states that same-sex couples can marry (without clarifying language on the degree of relation of the couple), then it follows that same-sex first cousins cannot marry and it would require an explicit declaration in law to say otherwise. -- User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:49, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

But same sex first cousin marriage need not to consider eugenics. 220.132.216.52 (talk) 09:24, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

True, but unless that was specifically mentioned in the law against cousin marrige it would have no legal weight. To qualify for a legal marriage, the couple must meet all legal requirements and not fall under any prohibitions. One disqualification renders it illegal.--User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 16:53, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could you add same-sex first cousin marriage to the table in this article? Thanks. 220.132.216.52 (talk) 09:26, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "30 states" in the question refers to those states (in addition to Illinois) where cousin marriage is largely or entirely illegal. From our article Cousin marriage law in the United States " It is illegal or largely illegal in 31 states and legal or largely legal in 19." -- User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 14:52, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Googling the subject, a sampling of states reveals that the laws about opposite-sex cousins marrying are not necessarily the same as same-sex cousins marrying, so we can't draw any inferences. They would have to be researched state-by-state. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 01:15, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For a related question, see Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 February 22 § Are there any country which same-sex marriage is legal, sibling with the same sex can also marry?.  --Lambiam 14:54, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 12[edit]

Errol Musk is a former anti-apartheid member of the 1970s and 80s Pretoria city council. In 21st-century English-language sources, he has been covered in-depth for his controversial relationships with famous family members, but to create a BLP on him, we really need fulltext access to an archive of 1970s South Africans daily newspapers like Die Burger or Pretoria News.

Looked in The Wikipedia Library, but not seeing it. Did I happen to miss it? Feoffer (talk) 10:12, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The place to ask is WP:REX... AnonMoos (talk) 12:15, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

> Was Andrew Jackson Senior a U.S. citizen? > Wikipedia does not mention whether the father, Andrew Jackson Senior, and mother, > Elizabeth Hutchinson Jackson, of President Andrew Jackson were U.S. citizens. 47.146.79.188 (talk) 15:13, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Jackson Senior died in 1767, so he could not have been a US citizen. I'm not aware of a source that goes into it, but Elizabeth could reasonably be considered a US citizen after 1777, since she was a free inhabitant of the states that joined in the Articles of Confederation. She died in 1981. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 15:39, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Probably 1781. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:27, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Jackson Junior was also not a natural born citizen, but was considered a US citizen in 1789 when the US Constitution took effect. Like his mother, he presumably formally became a citizen when South Carolina ratified the Articles of Confederation on February 5, 1778.  --Lambiam 19:51, 12 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 13[edit]

I see this dotty round-end serif style in bronzes and other things sometimes, does that follow use of a particular tool? To me it looks a bit soldering gun-ish.

Temerarius (talk) 17:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm by no means familiar with ancient coinage, but for this tetradrachm, Ancient Greek coinage#Minting mentions hammered coinage made through the use of coin dies. I imagine the blobbiness would come from the coin die itself being carved rather deeply, for an example see File:Reverse Die for a Tetradrachm of Demetrios I.jpg. GalacticShoe (talk) 17:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Just looking at it, it seems like they may have used a tool which leaves a circular hole to define the ends of some of the strokes, and then carved between these circles... AnonMoos (talk) 19:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Alma Rattenbury was a song-writer, adulteress, and accused murderer. She had two sons, Christopher (b. 1921), by her second husband Compton Packenham, and John (b. 1928), by her third and last husband Francis Rattenbury. She and her lover George Percy Stoner (b. 1916) were tried for the murder of Francis. he was found guilty, she was acquitted. Stoner was sentenced to death, but his sentence commuted to life imprisonment, and he was released after seven years. She committed suicide by stabbing herself on the banks of the Hampshire Avon, less than a week after her acquittal. My question is what happened to her sons, who would have been about 14 and 7 at the time of her death. Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 22:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Obituary here [13]. 2A00:23A8:1:D801:CDA3:36B8:54AE:E434 (talk) 17:39, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 14[edit]

There used to be a British "right-wing populist" party that (1) was active around 2015 (2) was led by an Irish-born woman who happened to be gay (3) had a trident as a symbol. Does anyone remember what that party was called (and what the name of that woman was)? I don't know if they're still active. 178.51.74.75 (talk) 19:12, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Anne Marie Waters, For Britain Movement. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 19:15, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per Left- and right-hand traffic, BC changed from LHT to RHT in stages. Why? The last page of [14], a provincial government publication, notes that the temporary disparity occurred in regions with no road connections to each other (so you wouldn't have awkward border crossings), and [15], from the Vancouver Sun, notes that the switch was delayed in Vancouver etc. due to the need to modify tram tracks. But why did the provincial government choose to switch regional BC before it switched the southwest, instead of waiting until the southwest was ready before switching everything at once? Nyttend (talk) 21:58, 14 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the facts with his mind set up on priorities, Superman in the forties started his career throwing automobiles around fighting vilains. Back in the twenties, saving the world was still considered urgent matter. So in the mountains backwards most of the traffic would mostly be going on using horses or mules and such - for an unpredictable period of time, and you do not change those sentients manners too easily without having they themselves realize by necessity they do have to. There may even have been requests explicitly expressed to that regard. --Askedonty (talk) 00:03, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Uhh...what? Nyttend (talk) 07:28, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The two sources that are cited give different explanations. The "Did You Know" item in The British Columbia Road Runner of March 1966 states:

"The change of the Rule of the Road for British Columbia from left to right hand driving became effective July 15, 1920, with the exception of the area west of Hope to Vancouver and Vancouver Island as there were no road connections. It was not until December 31, 1921, that the Rule of the Road became uniform throughout the Province."

The "Week In History" item in the Vancouver Sun of January 1, 2016, has this:

"The province’s Automobile Club had been lobbying for eight years to bring B.C. and Vancouver in line with Washington state and the rest of North America.
The interior of the province had changed to the new system in 1921. But because of the retrofitting that had to be made to streetcars and tracks, the change in Vancouver was delayed a year."

The latter makes more sense. Vancouver was connected by road to the US State of Washington, where RHT had been the rule for decades. Presumably the pressure of BC's Automobile Club made the province decide not to wait until also tardy Vancouver was ready, a decision made more easy by the lack of East–West road connections.  --Lambiam 09:15, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 15[edit]

Hello, I'm looking for a short story, or maybe a part of a novel. It's about a sacristan/custodian of a church in England. He fulfills duties with joy, but he can't read/write. As the (new?) priest notices it, and after discussions the sacristan gets "sacked". He then opens a cigar shop, has great success, expands and so on, but he still can"t read. The story ends that a customer or someone else asks him surprised: "You created all this, without being able to read? Imagine what you could have been, if you COULD read!" The former sacristan, now shop owner, replies: "oh, that is easy! I would still be sacristan at St. -Elsewhere-."

Can someone help me? Sadly I don't remember the author, or the title, not even the church name. What I do know, the language was english. (I'm German).

--Maresa63 ^Talk 17:18, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"The Church Warden" by Lilian Comer? --Wrongfilter (talk) 17:49, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, "The Verger" by the esteemed William Somerset Maugham! --Wrongfilter (talk) 17:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well done. It's a short story that you can read here. Alansplodge (talk) 18:52, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you all! William Somerset Maugham of course! Love his work! Must have read this story in a Public Library book many years ago, then! Now I have to get hold of a German edition of "The Verger", as a gift for a friend of mine, who doesn't speak english!

So glad for your help!

Cheers! --Maresa63 ^Talk 19:16, 15 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

July 16[edit]

Hi, I'd like to point those interested to a discussion about the development of the letterforms at Talk:Proto-Sinaitic_script. (Yes, of course we're aware of WP:OR.) And I'd like to ask where's a better place to talk about it. A bit niche. I'm making a video series with novel hypotheses but I don't have anybody to give me feedback. Temerarius (talk) 03:09, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken the liberty of wikifying the name of the talk page --ColinFine (talk) 09:37, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Having linked to the discusssion, and now looked at it, I'm quite certain that it does not belong on the talk page, or, probably, anywhere in Wikipedia. WP:Talk page guidelines says Talk pages are for discussing the article, not for general conversation about the article's subject. ColinFine (talk) 09:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, see particularly WP:TALKOFFTOPIC, which says It is common to simply delete gibberish, test edits, harmful or prohibited material (as described above), and comments or discussion clearly about the article's subject itself (as opposed to comments and discussion about the treatment of the subject in the article). ColinFine (talk) 09:45, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's why I'm asking? Don't tell me you love rules more than research. Temerarius (talk) 15:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems the character ° is used in physical addresses in some countries - but where exactly, and for what purpose? --KnightMove (talk) 04:19, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

One possibility is the floor number.[16] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baseball Bugs (talk • contribs) 06:15, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In some countries it's used to indicate the '-st' '-rd' that in English we append to numbers such as 1st and 3rd. There are lots of other uses too - see Ordinal indicator. Nanonic (talk) 09:33, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you both, this explains it. --KnightMove (talk) 11:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note that that's strictly speaking not the same character, in terms of text encoding. The character you named is ° U+00B0 DEGREE SYMBOL, while the one used as an ordinal indicator should typically be encoded as º U+00BA MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Future Perfect at Sunrise: Uhm, many thanks for that hint. So in languages using the U+00BA MASCULINE ORDINAL INDICATOR, keyboards contain that character, while others probably do not (I on my German keyboard believed it to be a degree symbol)? --KnightMove (talk) 13:22, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can't say about most languages, but Spanish and Portuguese keyboards seem to have these "ordinal" characters. Fut.Perf. ☼ 14:14, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aha. "Masculine ordinal indicator", as in primero, segundo, tercero, etc. Exactly as we use -st, -nd, -rd, -th in English. Only it's easier in Spanish because all the masculine ordinals end in -o. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:10, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also Lista de abreviaturas de vías ("List of abbreviations of ways") and Abreviaturas at the Diccionario Panhispánico de Dudas have several examples of other uses. --Error (talk) 15:15, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Y'all be unsurprised to hear that it applies to all languages with a direct Latin root. ——Serial Number 54129 16:20, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)Here is the teclado nacional, deprecated since 1971 but still in use when I was there [17]. Job adverts specified either teclado nacional or teclado internacional (the one we use). Monday is segunda-feira, but often written as 2^a. The top left key seems to be the one for that. You can see the French AZERTY layout at [18] (note the penultimate key on the top line). On the German and Swiss QWERTZ keyboards again note the top left-hand key [19]. 92.10.146.73 (talk) 16:37, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Of the nine Federal states of Austria, six have a traditional English name, at a minimum Tyrol having a varied English spelling. Burgenland, Vorarlberg and Salzburg have not. In the former two cases, this may be explained with the rather young age of the names (1921 and middle of the 18th century, respectively). But Salzburg is really old. Why do e.g. Styria and Carinthia have English names, but Salzburg has not? Where does this difference come from? --KnightMove (talk) 11:44, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say for the same reason that Hamburg is written the same way in English and German, whilst Bavaria/Bayern isn't. The 'English name' of Salzburg is Salzburg, thus the same would apply for the state name. Presumably the name didn't create problems for English writers and they got used to writing it same way as in German. --Soman (talk) 11:57, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The traditional English names actually come from (or via) Latin or Italian, so why not have another traditional name derived from German? The Latin version would be Salisburg or something like that, with a pronunciation that is not far off "Salzburg" anyway. --Wrongfilter (talk) 12:07, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Salisbury-by-the-Salzach? --Error (talk) 15:23, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Why didn't" questions can be almost impossible to answer. Alansplodge (talk) 17:46, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Salzburg" works in English, "Steiermark" and "Kärnten" don't. I mean Salzburg looks and sounds pretty much like an English word or placeneme might. "Steiermark" and "Kärnten" look and sound like nothing any Englishman might ever say or hear. But as Alan says, these kind of "why" or "why not" questions really can't be answered. DuncanHill (talk) 22:58, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What do they call it when a court argues it lacks the authority/competence to hear a case and directs it to a higher court? If there's an opposite of a writ Procedendo, that might be it. But is there such a mechanism? Cheers! ——Serial Number 54129 16:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Magistrates have limited jurisdiction. They often remit a case to the Crown Court. 92.10.146.73 (talk) 16:38, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I know. There's a name for it. What's the name, bro? ——Serial Number 54129 16:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The reciprocal seems to be remand (court procedure). --Error (talk) 16:50, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That would actually seem to be the opposite! A high court sending a case back to a lower court? I mean a lower court that claims it does not have the legal authority so upstairs must deal with it. ——Serial Number 54129 16:56, 16 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]