Eternals debate: Two EW staffers break down Chloé Zhao's entry in the MCU

This past weekend saw the release of Eternals, the 25th installment in the MCU franchise, and the response has been…. decidedly mixed. EW critic Leah Greenblatt and staff writer Devan Coggan discuss the movie's rocky reception.

LEAH GREENBLATT, CRITIC AT LARGE: So the numbers are in, and Eternals made $161.7 million globally this weekend. Which is still the GDP of a small country, but in Marvel world is considered some kind of failure, I guess — or at least a ding in the armor of such a full-metal franchise. Personally, I enjoyed the movie, but I think a lot of what I liked was the un-Marvel-ness of it: all the no-rush emphasis on character development and quirky humor and romance that feels like more than just obligatory C-plot garnish.

As a Marvel/DC agnostic, the projects in this genre that I've enjoyed the most tend to come from more auteur types, or at least directors with strong independent backgrounds: Ryan Coogler's Black Panther, Taika Waititi's Thor: Ragnarok, Patty Jenkins' Wonder Woman (but not alas that cheetah-print mess of a sequel). It did seem like some people came down particularly hard on Chloé in terms of her responsibility for Eternals' critical and commercial performance, which I think is tied at least partly to this very indie-shmindie perception of her as an artist. But also — the studio led their marketing with her name! They seemed proud to have a newly minted Oscar winner, and a historic one at that. Since I'm not really in the target demographic though, I wonder if that's how the fan base sees it at all; maybe they just wanted more dragon fights and less ancient Babylonia. Devan, as our resident MCU expert, do you think that the turn toward these types of filmmakers is overall organic and good, or just pure chaotic?

DEVAN COGGAN, STAFF WRITER: I couldn't agree more, Leah: My favorite entries will always be the ones that aren't afraid to tinker with the Marvel mold. Superheroes have gotten such a stranglehold on pop culture that in 2021, audiences expect more than just capes and conventional origin stories. Marvel Studios has often courted interesting directors with a distinct point of view, ever since Jon Favreau introduced Iron Man's hard-drinking, harder-partying Tony Stark in 2008. Since then, the franchise has found some of its greatest successes by hiring auteurs to do what they do best. Ryan Coogler brought prestige to the genre (and scored Marvel its first Best Picture Oscar nomination) with the dazzling Black Panther. James Gunn took a ragtag band of little-known comic book weirdos and turned Guardians of the Galaxy into a candy-colored hit. And I still can't believe Taika Waititi was allowed to make the neon-drenched, anti-colonialist space opera of my dreams with Thor: Ragnarok — but man, I sure am glad he did.

Just this year, indie darlings Cate Shortland and Destin Daniel Cretton debuted Black Widow and Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, respectively, and looking ahead, there are even more starry names on the Marvel roster: Candyman breakout Nia DaCosta is helming The Marvels, while horror icon (and original Spider-Man director) Sam Raimi is returning to the superhero world with Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. Admittedly, just because you hire an auteur director doesn't mean they'll mesh with the Marvel machine: I'm still mourning what might have been if Edgar Wright's Ant-Man had made it to theaters. But so far, Marvel has a mostly solid track record of hiring interesting people to make interesting movies — and they've got the box office receipts to prove it.

Which brings us to Eternals and Chloé Zhao. Adding to your point above, it's important to note that Marvel didn't just court her to direct: She courted them right back, previously telling EW that she had always wanted to join the Marvel universe long before Kevin Feige ever called her in for a meeting. At first glance, going from vans to spaceships seems like an odd trajectory, but Zhao is a self-professed geek, and Feige has said that she has a near-encyclopedic knowledge of everything from Star Wars to manga.

Between that and Zhao's domination at the Oscars this year, part of me wonders whether Eternals was hampered by high expectations. On paper, it seemed like another Marvel winner: a buzzy director, a starry cast, lots of evil aliens to shoot with laser beams. Instead, it was fine. Like you, I thought the film was solid but not spectacular, and I found myself wanting more — more of either Zhao's arthouse introspection or Marvel's trademark fun. I also think the muted reaction to Eternals rests less on Zhao's shoulders and more on the source material: Even among nerds like me, the Eternals aren't exactly comic book A-listers, and their convoluted mythology makes them difficult to adapt.

What do you think, Leah? Was Eternals a victim of its own hype?

LEAH GREENBLATT: Ahhh, I wondered if that was the Celestial elephant in the room — the fact that at this point, anything "new" to these franchises is going to be sort of scraping the bottom of the IP barrel source-wise. If certain DC or MCU inventions don't exactly set comic-book readers' hearts on fire, it makes sense that their screen translations would also get sort of a damp reception. It also seems fair to note that Eternals is biting off a lot: There are essentially 10 character arcs to plow through, spread out over several thousand years; I'm surprised they didn't just call this thing Expositions. Then again, when I first wrote about Dune I argued that that movie is mostly prologue, and even after those two-and-a-half-hours-plus I'm still not sure exactly what the beef is between Harkonnens and Atreides.

To be clear, Eternals to me does not achieve anywhere near the artistry of Dune; it's too full of pew-pew lasers and screensaver CG to come close to what Denis Villeneuve does as a director with his material. But I would also argue that it is more fun: Whereas that movie seems to let Jason Momoa's Duncan Idaho take one or two winky swipes at humor before getting back to its sand-Hamlet gravitas, Eternals actually made me laugh out loud more than once. (Kumail!) Then again, it's by far one of the most melancholy installments I've ever seen, too — an acknowledgment maybe that faith in the inherent good of mankind has never been more eroded than it is now, but that we've also never needed to believe this badly that things might be okay. Can a Marvel movie actually be wistful?

One thing's for sure: a story needs a center, and I'm not sure that everybody-in-the-pool ensembles like these can truly satisfy anyone — especially when you're not coming in with an MCU varsity squad like the Avengers do, where basically every star in it has already had their own standalone film in the franchise. Even then, those characters tend to blend into a slurry for me when they're all crammed together. Though Eternals actually did make me care about Sersi and Ikaris's bad romance, and I genuinely want to see what else Barry Keoghan's dark-horse Druig can do; as an actor: He has the weird vibes and soulful, complicated malevolence of a hero-slash-antihero I can actually get behind. (Harry Styles' Eros dimples too; that kid's got potential!)

Still, is Eternals like a table set with too many hors d'oeuvres when what you want is a full meal? Is there a sequel scenario that makes sense here to you, Devan, or does the whole thing need to be stripped down and sold for parts? Sorry, my metaphors are really starting to mix here.

DEVAN COGGAN: Yeah, that's one of the inherent challenges of spinning a tale that spans 7,000 years: There's a lot of ground to cover! And story-wise, introducing a squad of 10 brand-new heroes is no small task. (Compare that to the original Avengers, which was a team of six, or the first Guardians, which was three humanoid characters, a raccoon, and a tree.)

That being said, there are a lot of intriguing ideas bubbling under the surface of Eternals, waiting to burst forth like the Celestial Tiamut. I particularly like the film's third act: So many superhero movies start in a compelling place before devolving into a CG sludge fest of pretty people punching each other. As you said, Eternals' end is far more melancholy — and far more interesting. I especially love that the final showdown between Sersi and Ikaris isn't a physical battle but an intimate moment of eye contact, peppered with romantic flashbacks. Imagine how much more fun Captain America: Civil War would've been if Tony Stark and Steve Rogers settled their beef by soulfully staring into each other's eyes!

In fact, there are a lot of moments to like, sprinkled throughout Eternals' way-too-long runtime: Kumail's Kingo, as you mentioned, is a delight. I also dug the quirky flirtation between Keoghan's Druig and Lauren Ridloff's kleptomaniac Makkari. (Zhao told EW that wasn't in the script: She added their relationship after watching the two actors interact on set.) And I kind of love that after 13 years and 20-some movies, Marvel isn't afraid to get a little weird. I'd much rather spend time in Jack Kirby's nonsensical world of ancient space giants than watch Spider-Man's Uncle Ben die for the zillionth time. That hunger for bold, auteur-driven storytelling has extended to TV, too, as Marvel has started cranking out Disney+ shows: The bland, paint-by-numbers Falcon and the Winter Soldier was met with a less-than-enthusiastic response, while the biggest hits so far have been the zany sitcom spoof WandaVision and the bizarre time-travel caper Loki. I wish Eternals worked better than it did, but I'll never fault Zhao or any filmmaker for being too ambitious — especially when it comes to superhero stories.

It remains to be seen how the Eternals will fit into the MCU's next chapter. The film's ending (and all those post-credit scenes) are clearly teasing a future for these characters, but when I spoke to Zhao after the premiere, she said she hadn't yet mapped out a sequel. I'm not sure whether we'll get Eternals 2: Harry Styles Boogaloo or if these heroes will go their separate ways, only to pop up later in the end credits of Shang-Chi 3 or Thor 7. But I hope Marvel Studios continues to be ambitious with its storytelling and embrace the weird — Celestial warts and all.

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Eternals debate: Two EW staffers break down Chloé Zhao's entry in the MCU

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