Ai Art--the New Surrealism?

It's more like accidental surrealism though, due to the limitations of AI.

Kerry, we can't see the link if we don't subscribe

Almost everything with AI is surreal. Its actually very hard for it not to look surreal.


----Mike Savad

Jessica, did you try the gift link I included? It worked when I signed out and tried it.

Surrealism is an exploration into the inner human. AI is simply a superficial imitation, not in any sense of the word surreal. I think that people have mixed up something, virtually anything that looks weird as being surreal. Not the same.

surrealism
(səriːəlɪzəm IPA Pronunciation Guide)
UNCOUNTABLE NOUN
Surrealism is a style in art and literature in which ideas, images, and objects are combined in a strange way, like in a dream.


To this befuddled Old Coot:

Artificial Intelligence Generation is a style in art and literature in which ideas, images, and objects are combined in a strange way, like in a dream.

A very Strange Way.

Maybe I'll wake up to find it was only a dream

Surrealism

Sur in French means "on".

Realism is not just what you see. As the world moved to Cubism realism in painting was beginning to take a backseat. Surrealism uses figurative elements to describe the inner life as it meets the outer world.

AI images do not discuss the inner life. The outer world distortions of AI are interwoven juxtapositions of elements. Until people prompt in a much more developed way no genre matters coming from AI. It is not an intellectual aesthetic.

"Surrealism is an exploration into the inner human. AI is simply a superficial imitation, not in any sense of the word surreal. I think that people have mixed up something, virtually anything that looks weird as being surreal. Not the same."

Welcome back Ronald!
While I would have a tendency to agree, two doesn't make a consensus.

The definition of art Now has become a tautology therefore all of its existing subcategories are also tautological. It's like subdividing infinity.

Political/Social correctness infused with Modern Art Philosophy disallows the dismissal of anything being art by humans and now machines.

Try arguing that something isn't art! On this Forum it's not allowed. And for Good Reason! It's because Art by Modern Socialization is a tautology and with tautologies, argument is logically useless: an exercise in Futility; an adventure into the Absurd!

"Welcome back Ronald!
While I would have a tendency to agree, two doesn't make a consensus. "

three doesn't either, but all little bits help

But four is now the hoards at the gates.

David

I assume you mean the villagers with pitch forks and tar and feathers? :)

While I respect the opinions of the hoard at the gates, I think I'm more with Roger and offer Merriam-Webster's definition of "surreal": "1 marked by the intense irrational reality of a dream also : UNBELIEVABLE, FANTASTIC." That certains describes much of AI art, in fact, is the calling card of much of AI art (6 fingers, illegible text). Less philosophically, there are other forms of digital art where the human's interaction is not so traditional (e.g., fractal art and entering numbers instead of mark-making), and those forms have had many of the same criticisms levied against them, at least, initially. I'm sure this audience is aware of an AI image that won a (traditional) art contest. So, I think we should be careful to not denigrate a whole genre of art on the basis of a (possible) lack of sophistication or maturity in its aesthetics.

"Ai Art--the New Surrealism?"

Kerry,
you do put this in a form of a question therefore expect different opinions.

Surrealism- "marked by the intense irrational reality of a dream"

Do AI dream?
There is the famous Phillip K. Dick novel, "Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep", where Electric Sheep became a simulacra, an artificial substitute. The implication is: if AI dream thier dreams are artificial as well: a substitute dream.

If an android walks like a duck and quacks like a duck. Is it a duck?

You may know the novel as Blade Runner.

We may not dismiss AI's products as art but maybe we can make a stand and claim dreams are uniquely human. But of course, this can not be proven or disprove. Another futile argument. Another tautology. Ai produce Surrealistic Art; AI do not produce Surrealistic Art.

Just how far will the Orwellian Rabit Hole go?

Yes, a lot of generative AI art looks surreal.
But looks can be deceiving, especially when it is not clear if it is a human dream or a machine dream.

Feel like Ai can be considered in some cases surrealism but with the limitation of it its kind of hard to say.

AI is a mashing of stuff. Our emotions about AI are surreal.

Surrealitic art has many avenues. With AI help, you can create images confined to some of those avenues. In that sense, one could say, "AI art [can be] the New Surrealism."

However, the capabilities of AI art programs are very broad, and they do not limit you to making only surrealistic images.

I know there are many opinions and debates on this subject, but to me, in a way, yes, it is a kind of sur-realism, because it is obviously nonrealistic.

However the term surrealism applies to ART, and here we come again with the controversy of whether AI is art or not - we better don't go into this again ;)

Anyway, surrealist or not, AI is definitely ARTIFICIAL and that is a totally different thing.

We do for instance eat artificially created "FOOD", which cannot be considered "Surrealistic Food" Ha, ha LOL

Tatiana, what do you mean by AI art being artificial? My first sense of "artificial" is "not natural," so that leads me to ask, what is "natural" art?

Tatiana,

Although I agree with you regarding whether AI Generated images can be considered Art.


Using the example of "Artificial Food", might be ill served.

Since, artificial food ,is actually food created by humans.

And "Real" natural food is created by a force far beyond our understanding

.......and we are not going onto the art V ai discussion

ai is another form of art, whether people believe it is artificial or not. Whether it is liked or disliked has nothing to do with this conversation and we are not going down that road again

Once again, not argument worthy! It's all about what you want to believe. It's all about which definition fits your desires.
"Meaning of surreal in English
strange; not seeming real; like a dream:"
Ref: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/surreal
"Like a dream " implies similar, substitute, stand-in, so forth and so on.

The only attribute that interest me is? Clear transparency regarding methodology.

Surreal use to mean one thing and now its meaning just keeps expanding to include a very broad group of things. Just like everything that grows; the individual significance diminishes as the category expands but the initial cornerstones bear the original understanding and their significance gain more importance do to their provenance.

Like some of the threads here occasionally

IT is a form of Art, but I wonder how long it will last. Will it last? I am not sure. Remember HDR? Remember how it was extremely popular and people were able to combine images and then create less contrasty images with more dynamic range? I did my share of them. Alot of them. Now, they look strange almost like candy to me. Over processed with no shadows or proper use of light. I suspect it will happen again with AI..The images look good at first, but when you see a ton of them, all of sudden they all look the same. At least to me when I see one now, I think wow so Cool and then I study it and it is surreal.

I don’t think the conversation is about is AI art or not? The conversation is about can the art being produced by AI be Surrealism? Unless the computers have a subconscious mind the answer is simple, no. Can AI produce work that mimics Surrealism? The answer to that would be yes.

Our emotions are given over to what we see. That is surreal. We could be looking at realism and our emotions can be surreal.

AI will continue to change. At times radically change.

The current AI aesthetics are not meant to be surreal.

What I find surreal is people claiming that their AI art is digital art. AI and digital art are not the same!

@JL, AI art has digital technology at its core and can't reasonably be creating without a computer. How is it not digital art? I see AI art as a subset of digital art, but I may be missing something.

Drew,

Just wondering (Excuse my ignorance)

RE:..." aesthetically pleasing images with simple prompts. "


Can an AI generated image ever fulfill the understood requirements for this current thread?

https://fineartamerica.com/showmessages.php?messageid=9584434

Creating a simple understated image

Roger, your answers are in front of you. Some say It can, some say it cannot and some will be fooled.

Drew,

I now know it can.

I just prompted "Dream by Wombo" with one word "Feather" and this is what I got on it's first try:

Wow Roger, the process is rather surreal isn't it? But who should it be attributed too? Did you Create it. Did the AI mechanism create it. Did all the images that had to be scrapped make it? Did all those scientists, engineers, and mathematicians make it?

It was made by the sum of all of those elements.

Looking at "Roger's" Feather I am reminded of how many other people's photos and paintings were used without permission or compensation.

I think the entire world is surreal these days.

I think the rise of AI is surreal.

I don't believe AI Art is surrealism.

Roger showed us a one word prompt "Feather" I wonder if he did a 2 word prompt "Surrealistic Feather" would the result be "surrealism" ? Would Roger be a Surrealist Artist Genius winning awards and sales ?

"Surrealism" implies sort of intentions doesn't it ?

AI art often uses digital art tools and software as part of the creative process, especially in the post-processing stages. Both are at the forefront of technological innovation in the art world, pushing boundaries and exploring new aesthetic possibilities.

The difference is only in that digital art is usually created directly by the artist using digital tools. In contrast, AI art involves an additional layer where the artist designs the algorithm or model that then produces the artwork.

In digital art, the artist has direct control over every aspect of the creation. In AI art, the artist's role may be more about curating and guiding the AI's output rather than direct creation.

So, JL, AI can be put under the digital art umbrella if no other category is available such as here.

Gary,

RE:... "Surrealistic Feather"

"I think the entire world is surreal these days.

I think the rise of AI is surreal."

Gary, I think the same things!
I think AI will continue to make the world more and more surreal and I think we all need not yield to those who want to standardize thought.

I also think one should think before one shares their thoughts because I think their are always someone and now something that have been conditioned or programmed to tear ones thinking down and replace it with their or its replacement thoughts respectively.

"I am growing tired of the many art critics here and elsewhere defining what art IS like they are ''elites'' when it comes to art."

Laurie, I do not look forward to the days we can not speak freely about our individual perspectives on what art means to us as individuals.

What always comes to mind when thinking critically is the story of "The Three Little Pigs": The Pigs known as Snowball, Napoleon, and Squealer that is.
Napoleon, the controlling character, Snowball the hero who was turned into the escape goat, and Squealer who was the sycophant who constantly altered the game to fit Napoleon's wishes.
The simple childhood story called "Animal Farm" gave a lot of children and adults many things to think about when dynamic cultural shifts are set in motion.

AI is one of those surrealistic factors altering our false sense of stability and absolute meaning behind rules.

Abbie.

RE:.." the artist designs the algorithm"


Did I design an algorithm with only the word "Feather"?

Drew,

RE:..."Tearing it down"

I suppose that if "Spin Art" can be considered "Art"




then,

AI generated image must also be considered "Art"


(By the way, that kid is doing far more in determining the final result than what I did)

@Drew, I 100% agree with speaking freely and critical thinking. I do not agree with mockery of one's art, patronizing one's art and the many attacks that many artists using AI have received here. That is not acceptable in critical thinking discussions. Change can be very difficult. We are living in very tumultuous, fast evolving times.
A day may come where we may not be able to speak freely, I get that, and I am very concerned about it as well. I just do not like to feel that those including myself using AI as a tool are always under attack here. It is what it is, and why I usually do not come in to discussions too often anymore.

It is very interesting to me that in the last Edit This contest, the artist who created a fabulous surreal entry won...I read his bio and he said he prefers to use AI...How ironic that many who voted for his amazing work, are the ones possibly mocking the method. This is surreal to me.

Roger, thanks for putting up "Surrealistic Feather".

I do not think you are suddenly a giant genius among living Surrealists.

Now I do think anyone who sells Turkey Vulture Art is a genius......just for selling Vultures at all. And even more because I like it.

Drew. Nice to know we agree on some things.

Now if AI was to independently refuse to do anything other than 2024 "I am traumatized by The Great War and need to express myself" Dadaist Art.........

Roger, I do agree that the kids in question do have a great deal of input to their Mechanized Art. They control rotational velocity, color and paint quantity and order.
Once, my family and I saw The Blue Man act turn this kid fun into an entire show.

"I do not agree with mockery of one's art, patronizing one's art and the many attacks that many artists using AI have received here":

Of course this type of behavior is not acceptable for any civil discourse but the subjects of authenticity and provenance regarding fine art are paramount and no one needs to tiptoe around those who disregard their significance.

Certain Types of Art have specific protection.
Reference:Visual Artists Rights Act of 1990
"VARA provides its protection only to paintings, drawings, prints, sculptures, still photographic images produced for exhibition only, and existing in single copies or in limited editions of 200 or fewer copies, signed and numbered by the artist. The requirements for protection do not implicate aesthetic taste or value."
VARA has been around long before generative AI and recognizes Fine Art not mass produced as significant with specific moral protection. Such art is foundational and fundamental art so much that it has its own governance whereby moral use is taking into consideration at the national level.

"Drew. Nice to know we agree on some things."
I couldn't be around a bunch of like thinkers! How the heck would one learn anything if those around you just kept you in your comfort zone bolstering your biases and preconceptions.

Laurie,

Please don't let me get started with the last Edit This Contest

Hey guys, I've made no rule regarding AI in my edit this contests purely because I also use photography and AI on a few of my works. It would be hypocritical of me, don't you think?

What is so surreal is that Generative AI Art is being hidden under previous umbrellas whereas from Its conception, it is a beast from a new species. It is a Chimera made of machine intelligence and human legacy.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/12/learning/a-letter-to-midjourney.html

No one is calling anyone a hypocrite! Artists are describing and trying to figure out how to exist in a world that mechanized their creative contributions to be commoditized as an alternate replacement to their abilities and craftsmanship.

It's called Respect and the attached letter expresses the idea of Respect for The Artist better than I can.

Respect is not an argument, it is not a request. It is a Human Right!

Wondering about respect.

Would or Wouldn't AI Generative Image Artists, claiming that they have the right, at this moment to have their work displayed with traditional art at any public museum, be justified?

Once again Roger, there is no argument. Transparency first and foremost is where respect begins and ends. The rest is rationalization. The contrivance of hypotheticals are no substitute for Transparency. If Generative AI Is used and that fact if withheld then just like athletes who use drug enhancements without disclosure cheat. If Drug enhancements are allowed and disclosed then there's no cheating. The same reasoning applies with art institutions.

Drew,

Funny you brought up athletics.

Wonder if AI Generated Imagery have any similarities with the current bruhaha in female sports?

Roger, what bruhaha in female sports and how does it relate?

Drew,

RE:...Participation in Female Sports

The prevalent question today is:

Does a female's anatomy or biology have very little to do with one gender identity and is not what makes someone a woman. ?


To me, there is a similarity, to the question as to how to define Art

Ok we are SO not going there! Off that conversation right now please

BACK to the original topic or there WILL be bans

Abbie, I agree. It's an irrelevant red herring!
Sorry Roger but I call them as I see them!
Loaded questions need to be diffused now don't they?

"the question as to how to define Art"
Socially with Temporal relevance: according to Modern Art Philosophy, Art Is A Tautology.

see below

Modern art ai included has always been temporal.

T shirts

Steel and concrete buildings to save a buck on construction. Lighter weight builds

Temporal, but I mean ephemeral as in temporary. My bad.