Trudeau said: “We do not have the right for example to shout fire in a movie theatre crowded with people, there are always limits.”
Yes. There is no right to incitement to violence or criminal activity. Deliberately causing a panic when there is nothing to panic about, however, is markedly different from doing something entirely innocuous, i.e., drawing a cartoon, that offends the sensibilities of a particular group. If offense to a group, any group, is criminalized, that group has a free hand to do whatever it wants, including illegal activity, up to and including the imposition of tyrannical rule, without fear of opposition. Thus what Justin Trudeau is saying here subverts the very idea of a free society.
“Free speech has limits, Canada’s Trudeau says,” AFP, October 30, 2020:
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau defended free speech on Friday, but added that it was “not without limits” and should not “arbitrarily and needlessly hurt” certain communities.
“We will always defend freedom of expression,” Trudeau said in response to a question about the right to show a caricature of the Prophet Mohammed, as France’s Charlie Hebdo magazine did.
“But freedom of expression is not without limits,” he added. “We owe it to ourselves to act with respect for others and to seek not to arbitrarily or unnecessarily injure those with whom we are sharing a society and a planet.”
“We do not have the right for example to shout fire in a movie theatre crowded with people, there are always limits,” he argued.
Distancing himself from the position of French President Emmanuel Macron, Trudeau pleaded for a careful use of free speech.
“In a pluralist, diverse and respectful society like ours, we owe it to ourselves to be aware of the impact of our words, of our actions on others, particularly these communities and populations who still experience a great deal of discrimination,” he said.
At the same time, he said society is ready for a public debate on these issues, “to have these complex conversations in a responsible way.”
As he had done the day before with the leaders of the European Union, Trudeau insisted on condemning the recent “awful and appalling” extremist attacks in France.
“It is unjustifiable and Canada wholeheartedly condemns these acts while standing with our French friends who are going through extremely difficult times,” he said….
Dude says
Why doesn’t someone ask him about all the sedition in the desert scriptures?
mortimer says
Jihadi Justin is a JIHAD ENABLER. He doesn’t criticize the beheaders.
If it’s wrong to shout ‘fire’ in a crowded theater, then MULLAHS and MUSLIM LEADERS who solicit the murder of blasphemers or who call for riots should be prosecuted.
No RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY or RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY has a right to use TERRORISM to censor words that they find distasteful.
No RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY or RELIGIOUS COMMUNITY has a right to take away our freedom of expression.
That’s why there are HUMAN RIGHTS CODES.
What is ‘BLASPHEMY’ to one person may be normal for another. What is ‘unacceptable’ to one person may be commendable to another.
If Muslims cannot accept the rules of freedom of expression in Western countries they should move to an Islamic BERZERKISTAN where all speech and social actions are wrapped in a STRAIGHT JACKET.
MUSLIMS DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO DICTATE ‘ALLOWABLE’ SPEECH TO OTHERS.
Marjorie Bridge says
Nobody murdered anybody because of the film Life of Brian with Jesus on the cross and the chorus singing “Always Look on the Bright Side of Life”. Everyone took it in good part as a comedy and nobody in particular that I know thought the Monty Python crew should be beheaded. Tolerance seems to have gone out of the window.
gravenimage says
+1
Rufolino says
In the UK now, you don’t have to be actually “critical” of someone or something to be called out for being politically incorrect and unacceptable.
All you have to do is state ANY point of view strongly, for people to react.
Any strongly stated point of view might potentially cause offence to someone. And that imagined potential is no longer acceptable in society.
So you must tip-toe around EVERY subject to avoid potentially “upsetting” anyone. Any subject at all.
You cannot “be a man” and stand up for something, it’s unacceptable. The whole population has been feminised.
bernie says
(Small correction: a “Jesus-like character named Brian Cohen on the cross.” Your point is well-taken though. There were a small number of Christians and Jews who were offended by it, but those people simply boycotted the film, or wrote letters or called talk shows to express their displeasure. Even the much more controversial movie, “The Last Temptation of Christ” (directed by Martin Scorsese, starring Willem Dafoe, and based on a Nikos Kazantzakis book) didn’t provoke large-scale violence, though there were a few isolated incidents. Moreover, the vast majority of Mormons have been very restrained regarding the musical comedy “The Book of Mormon,” and have even used the theme to spark peaceful debate and to proselytize.)
el Cid 2 says
Well said Mortimer.
juleonly says
Yes, has its limits meaning no reading, preaching, teaching the Qur’an in USA or any country that is not already Muslim. Its just a Supremacist Warlord manual for conquest and complete control of its embers to do the dirty work wherever they are. Really, banning incitement is meant to be done. Why can’t people see this? Islam is a Government, a way of life, everything. It is opposite our Freedom and protecting our freedom may need a ban on some things….but Trudeau is not thinking the whole thing through. Because he is still ignorant of what Islam is and its goals or even what Supremacist means.
DP111 says
Once one concedes that an opinion on a book can be censored, as it offends some person or persons, then it is the end of free speech.
Free speech will then be regulated by a government body, which will decide how much and to what length, and the ability of how much society can stomach mayhem and riots.
Crusades Were Right says
I’ll bet Trudeau – and many other Western leaders – have a special Muslim adviser who tells him that Islam means “peace”, and that 1400 years of terror is basically the fault of Robert Spencer and Tommy Robinson.
lol
Dude says
Yes, she was an attractive Mata Hari with thick red glossy lips who pushed the Islamophobia legislation into law a while back.
mortimer says
Agree with Dude. The woman was also a fake refugee who was actually a Pakistani citizen when her mother lied on the application.
Jihadi Justin is a hypocrite in bed with the Muslim Brotherhood and couldn’t care less about the freedom of expression, judging from the way he censors opposition to himself in alternate media. He has bribed most of the media outlets in Canada to support him whatever the scandal.
Frank says
Do not forget the240 millions (and counting) killed by the religion of peace
Reziac says
I’ll bet Trudeau is a wholly-owned creature of Muslim interests.
DP111 says
Its Tommy Robinson. Why did he just let the rapes of tens of thousands English girls continue.
unbeliever1 says
A Muslim once said the often-repeated phase to me, and my response was, “Tell that to your Muslim brothers who it is claimed do not understanding Islam. Convince the followers who cause non- Muslims to think otherwise of Islam;not me who is not a Muslim.”
Mount Zion says
Freedom of expression is not without limits…. says Trudeau , first of all the decapitation took place after a class held on freedom of expression , does he mean that there should be a limit on what the teacher can or cannot say in a “freedom of speech” class ? second think to decapitate someone based on feeling offended is so medieval so barbaric and so inconcievable that there should be worldwide outrage and clear support for France .I say what else will it take to stop all muslim immigration to the west and deport all of the onces already here . I also say , Trudeau sided with France only pro forma .
Ray Jarman says
+1 Mount Zion,
You asked, “does he mean that there should be a limit on what the teacher can or cannot say in a “freedom of speech?” The question is rhetorical of course but only for a non-Muslim since no one tries to behead the imams in the madras where hatred of everyone and everything not Islamic is drilled into youngsters heads. In the mosques and even on television, imams spew hatred and incite their minions to go out and commit horrific crimes against others and Trudeau has said nothing.
Mount Zion says
Ray Jarman you are completely right , as a matter of fact in my comment I’m talking to westerner I’m appealing to western standards to be upheld and I’m specifically talking to trudeau and the west not to muslims when I say rhetorically if there should be restrictions in a “freedom of speech class” ?
Yogi says
Marine Le Pen , vote for Her , she will clean up this barbaric savages, she have more guts the Macron and Thus shiny pony Trudeau..period
Norman Gardner says
Yup.
11B40 says
Bon Jour:
Allons, enfant !!!
Raymond Boom says
With a packet of sweets and a cheeky smile, Mohamed was a fkn pedophile. ??
Rarely says
Trudeau is a concern. He seems oblivious to the dangers Canada is facing with its immigration policy.
Nevertheless, in the Freedom of Speech/Expression discussion a line must be drawn. It isn’t an easy thing to do or agree upon. For example, on which side of the line would you put the anti-Semitic Nazi cartoons of the 1930s and 40s? What if they were reprinted today and recirculated?
m says
No comparison, rarely … Jews never advocated world subjugation nor the murder of disbelievers. Judaism is focused on the Land of Israel and the law of Moses which is not applied upon Gentiles.
No cartoonist today is advocating the torture and murder of Muslims. The TOTALITARIAN IDEOLOGY OF ISLAM is under scrutiny by anyone concerned with human rights and is justly condemned and lampooned by cartoonists. Our human rights codes protect our right to criticize religions because religions can be used to oppress minorities. But Sharia is a special case.
Sharia law actually mandates the MURDER and ASSASSINATION of blasphemers by VIGILANTES.
You cannot find the equivalent of the following blasphemy punishments in Jewish religious law:
“There is no indemnity obligatory for KILLING a non-Muslim (harbi) at war with Muslims.” -Reliance of the Traveller, o4.17, p.593
“We have already discussed KILLING the person who, with intent, curses the Prophet, belittles him or slights him in any way. The judgement in this case is clear.” (i.e. death) – Qadhi Iyaadh in ash-Shifa, Volume No.2, Page No. 27
Seth says
If the word ‘racist’ has any meaning left, it can only be applied to white extreme leftists such as the mewling Trudeau, the repellent Ardern, and the senile Biden.
Islam is protected because it is practiced by a lot of brown people, and brown people can’t be trusted to act like adults and turn away from criticism or shrug it off.
White leftism is cancer.
Fred van de Bunt says
People say Trudeau is the male equivalent of the “dumb blonde”, that is easily forgiven her mental shortcomings, because of her ravishing looks.
Agostino Armo Pellegrini says
“We do not have the right for example to shout fire in a movie theater crowded with people, there are always limits.”
I always want to throw up every time I hear Justice Holme’s theater scenario cited as the excuse for crushing free speech regarding islam. The word that is usually left out when that Supreme Court opinion is quoted is “falsely.” That is, one should not falsely shout “fire” in a theater. False and dangerous speech most likely will not be protected speech, while dangerous but true speech most surely can be. And that’s the case with islam, our truthful speech about that evil creed can not be deemed unprotected speech simply because muslims may act like violent babies response. And that goes for our satire and cartoons too which is a form of literature and art, and is a kind of commentary in which an “individual or entity’s vices or shortcomings may be exaggerated for comedic relief and as a form of public shaming” [HG.org legal Resources]. Which is a polite and legal way of saying, muslims can kiss our ass.
“But freedom of expression is not without limits,” he added. “We owe it to ourselves to act with respect for others and to seek not to arbitrarily or unnecessarily injure those with whom we are sharing a society and a planet.” Trudeau
Trudeau seems to forget we are talking about a religion that overtly praises and glorifies violence and commands muslims to kill and terrorize unbelievers–AND THEY’RE DOING IT.
We don’t need a lesson in free speech manners, muslims do. Non-muslims are getting murdered and persecuted by the 10’s of thousands, but if we create cartoons that criticize that crime and immorality then we’re like the guy shouting fire when there is no fire? NO, that analogy is wrong because there IS a fire. And that fire is the murder, terror, and mass rape muslims are doing against the non-muslim world.
Trudeau tries to appear sensitive and socially caring when he admonishes us to not “unnecessarily injure those with whom we are sharing a society,” but his real goal is to put cartoons on an equal footing with religiously motivated murder and terror. If Trudeau truly cared about injuring others he’d condemn islam for the bigoted violence it teaches and causes on a genocidal scale. There’s nothing insensitive about cartoons in the face of mass terror and cultural annihilation. The insensitivity is in suggesting cartoons could provide even the slightest justification for the murderous intolerance muslims give in response, and that’s exactly what Trudeau is doing.
F*ck muhammad, f*ck his demon god, and f*ck anyone who thinks they can tell us to shut up about it.
TRUDEAU, STOP CRITICIZING CARTOONS! AND START CARING ABOUT BIGOTRY AND TERROR FOR ISLAM!
best rebuttal says
+1
Best rebuttal of the false fire-in-a-cinema analogy for restricting truth about islam that I’ve ever read!
James Lincoln says
Agostino Armo Pellegrini says,
“that analogy is wrong because there IS a fire.”
Perfectly stated, my compliments.
gravenimage says
*Spot on*, Agostino.
I noted this myself here. I hope no one minds my reposting a comment from June of 2008:
The regressive forces against free speech often note that free speech has its limits–for instance, one may not yell “fire!” in a crowded theatre.
Everyone knows the potential dangers–people getting trampled in a run for the exits, people mistaking doors to dead-end storerooms for exits, people running into narrow alleys with no access to the street. So is it *ever* permissable to cry “fire!” in a crowded theatre? Well, yes. It is not only permissible, it is imcumbant on any moral person to cry fire if the theatre is indeed on fire. Let’s belabour the metaphor.
That’s what the jihadists have done. They have set the theatre on fire. They are now at work on disabling the smoke detectors, smoke alarms, and sprinkler systems. They are now at work blocking the exits.
Most of the patrons are in line for tickets and popcorn, or they are already in their seats, eating junior mints and watching previews for “Kung Fu Panda” and “The Incredible Hulk” while they wait for the movie to begin.
A few patrons, though, have noticed smoke curling up from behind the screen and over by the consession stands. They are alarmed. As they try to warn the crowd of the danger, they are threatened by some of the arsonists who have stayed behind…
A few people in the crowd do actually notice this, and are rather alarmed and upset. But, hey, “The Love Guru” starts in a few minutes, and they paid good money to see the show.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/06/spencer-george-orwell-meets-the-oic.html#comment-537281
Andrew says
Trudeau is a classic soy boy and only got the job because of his family name.
Previously he was a Canoe Instruction and a Drama Teacher, as far as I know he never held any Political job…
He is even less experienced than Obama.
He often prays to allah in the mosque though I have never seen him do that in a Synagogue, Church, Buddhist Temple, Hindu Temple or Sikh Temple… How weird is that eh?.
Wellington says
Yes, freedom of speech is not absolute and does have limits but I don’t want someone like Trudeau drawing those limits.
Stang says
Trudeau is a POS and does not deserve the time it took to read his response. But word must get out that the criminal defends Islam at all costs regardless of life lost. He is a coward
Tony Naim says
In recorded history, no one saw, heard, smelled, tasted or touched God, yet millions believe in the one God. A mysterious evasive idea in an ongoing process of eternal revelation.
There are fundamental discrepancies between the God of the Ten Commandments, Jesus and the God of Muhammad.
Even contradictions within Islam itself that must not be off limit to the critical analysis of any single person or their free conscience.
Trudeau, his limited intellectual ability, or any other retarded leftist, should make an extra mental effort to understand: The suppression of critical thinking through savagery must never be accepted as a path to faith. WHICH IS WHAT POLITICAL ISLAM IS ALL ABOUT!!!!!!!
Michael Copeland says
Savagery is, indeed, the recommended method.
Islamic State produced a handbook titled “The Management of Savagery”.
Reziac says
Conveniently archived here:
https://archive.org/details/TheManagementOfBarbarismAbuBakrNaji/
I just skimmed it a couple pages at random, and in that brief look discovered a well-developed plan for keeping westerners weak and easily attacked.
Jay says
He is also bringing in 1.3 immigrants over the next 3 years.
Chrissie01 says
exactly, there are limits. I do not find the cartoons very tasteful …and they are certainly meant to offend…
I wouldn’t show it to children either.
But there is a book called the Qur’an that contains much nastier stuff, and THAT – yes – THAT I would ban just like MEIN KAMPF
b.a. freeman says
“…we owe it to ourselves to be aware of the impact of our words, of our actions on others…”
—
i’ll believe *that* when mr. turdeau declares that drawing disrespectful cartoons of christians is “hate speech.” of course, i’m not a fascist like he is, so i detest the concept of “hate speech,” and would *STRONGLY* such laws protecting christians, or hindus, or buddhists, or adherents of any other religion, and for the same reason. he would have U believe that muslims are victims of discrimination; i would respond by asking why canada doesn’t have laws against discrimination; the u.s. does, and has had such laws for 50 years … and we’re supposedly a white-supremacist nation.
tim gallagher says
I’m sure that it is true that there are limits to complete freedom of expression, as Robert Spencer points out at the beginning of this report, but I bet that this weasel Trudeau is really trying to say that our western countries should fall into line with the moronic Muslims and their backward, brain dead concepts of blasphemy. That low life piece of crap, Muhammad, should be continually exposed as the vile creature he really was, (if the piece of crap even existed) and the Muslim idea that he should not be criticised because he was some kind of wonderful person is complete BS. As I watch the TV news coverage of the two murderous attacks in France over the cartoon of Muhammad and I see vision of the raving loony mobs in various backward Muslim countries all yelling for vengeance against France, I see more clearly than ever that islam and our civilised western values cannot ever, in any way whatsoever, get along. The loony, primitive attitude of Islam towards our western freedoms show that islam is 100% incompatible with our most cherished values. I hope this whole carry on by these loonies in Muslim countries wakes many people up to the gigantic divide between our civilised countries and barbaric Muslims. All I can say, yet again, is keep Muslims out of our countries. Keep these barbarians in their own stinking Muslim countries. Until they ditch Islam they aren’t fit to live anywhere but in backward Muslim countries. I don’t take much notice of him, but Trudeau seems like a pathetic, piss weak sellout merchant when it comes to our western values.
gravenimage says
The limits of freedom of speech should pretty much be inciting violence–which Muslims actually do all the time.
tim gallagher says
That’s for sure, gravenimage. Muslim spokesmen seem to spew out a neverending stream of hatred and calls for violence. But that’s being true to the content of Islam. Islam’s basic book, the Koran, seems to be full of hatred and calls for violence against non-believers. As I mentioned in my comment up above, I have been seeing footage on the TV news of mobs of raving Muslim loonies calling for revenge against France for daring to show the cartoon of Muhammad and for Macron actually getting a bit tough towards Islam, and, although (as i’ve said many times here at Jihad Watch) my policy is to shut Muslims out of all non-Muslim countries, (which I think is also your policy as you’ve mentioned at Jihad Watch quite often) seeing these ferocious mobs has definitely reinforced my attitude towards Muslims more than ever. I know not all Muslims are like the fanatics in these mobs, but I am damned sure Muslims just don’t belong in our more civilised western countries. They have totally different attitudes on almost every aspect of life. I keep hoping more people will wake up. Maybe seeing these mobs of Muslims might wake some people up, although nothing seems to wake some people up.
James Lincoln says
Excellent and “spot on” exchange featuring tim gallagher / gravenimage…
tim gallagher says
Thanks for your comment, James. I have been annoyed by the sight, on the TV news coverage, of the raving Muslim loonies carrying on (I think the ones I saw in Australia were in some African country but they were similar to what we see often in Pakistan) and calling for revenge against France and Macron. As I said above, I can only hope that seeing these fanatics might wake up some of the slow learners around the place. I can find nothing good in islam, so I won’t change my belief that it is insanity to let Muslims into our countries, but I do hope that far more people will also see the truth about islam. Islam belongs nowhere but in backward, barbaric Muslim countries. What a fantasy it is to think it can ever get along with non-Muslims.
gravenimage says
Thank you, James.
revereridesagain says
Yeah it is without limits. I have the right to call out any religious idiocy I care to. That it ruffles feathers of the faithful is not my problem. They are free to stop their ears, cover their eyes, and walk away. The impact of my words on others if THEIR responsibility, not mine, and I am not required to consider the “feelings” of advocates of repression and murder in the name of religion. When the slaves of Allah refuse to abide by that basic moral rule, and try to silence or murder us, it is they who must be charged with the crime.
Hamish MacDonald says
Trudeau is not Canadian conservative.
He was preceded by Stephen Harper who took Canada from five trade deals to fifty five trade deals, all of which have done wonders for the Canadians.
There are always two sides.
Everyone knows that.
But it is incumbent on elected leaders not to moralise; it is their job to support their constituents.
Tony Blair is another who pushed a barrow. Comment by William Haig is well worth a read.
Evidently Trudeau has not done his Islamic homework.
Pity.
gravenimage says
I’m an American who envied Canada when Harper was in office.
E T says
Canadians should look at MEMRI, Canadian Imam Youous Kathrada talking about France. Astonishing we have M-103 our hate speech motion. I think I got it figured out —Muslim-103 — don’t cha be sayin nothin about the Muslims. Justine Trudeau is our Canadian disgrace.
gravenimage says
Canada: Trudeau answers question about Muhammad cartoons by saying ‘freedom of expression is not without limits’
……………………
Just repulsive. Anyone who looks at those beheading those standing for freedom of speech and sides with the murderers is sick, and will do nothing to defend civilized values.
Loki says
So, what happened to your “tolerance” true-dope?
And if you want to talk about cutting peoples heads off… Well, I’m honing my Bowie knife.
Lorensacho says
Trudeau should be asked what he would do if fundamentalist Christians threatened to crucify anyone who made fun of Santa Claus.
Giacomo Latta says
”In a pluralist, diverse and respectful society like ours, we owe it to ourselves to be aware of the impact of our words, of our actions on others, particularly these communities and populations who still experience a great deal of discrimination”
Diverse and respectful? An oxymoronic phrase if ever there was one. Who said we need a diverse society when it means that no respect will be shown by communities toward other communities who wish to avail themselves of their democratic right to speak their mind, less all illegal activity that Trudeau casually alluded to. Since when is discrimination, in its largest definition, a bad thing. You visit a store and you see one coat cheaply-made but inexpensive and another one of a higher quality but more expensive. You discriminate as you like as a result.
If by discrimination he means activity rendered illegal by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, including on the basis of religion, then let Trudeau explain how I, an atheist, have no right to refuse to employ those who must hate Jews and kill disbelievers of all kinds whereas they have every right to slash my neck. Unfortunately our MSM are too terrorized by the politically correct and by the violent to question Trudeau.
E T says
Is it hate speech to say I loathe Justine Trudeau and many globalist, Canadian politicians who defend their pay cheques and pensions over our freedom?
dofaust says
Occam’s razor: All politcians of the Left are spineless, and seek only power, and could care less about basic rights for all, especially as long as their nomenklatura-membership is preserved…
OLD GUY says
I always love these guys saying you can’t yell fire in a theater as an example of restrictions on freedom of speech. But they say nothing about islam telling it followers to kill people because they don’t agree with islam. Why not say you can’t threaten to behead someone over a cartoon or threaten to kill someone you don’t agree with. How about not yelling kill cops or white’s, haven’t heard anyone telling Black Lives Matter’s not to say that.