That’s what is at stake in the historical inquiry into the origins of Islam, and that’s why so many Islamic apologists are reacting so furiously to the book Did Muhammad Exist? Revised and Expanded Edition.
Preorder Did Muhammad Exist? Revised and Expanded Edition here.
Terry Gain says
Hear hear.
gravenimage says
Islamic apologist Shabir Ally: ‘If the prophet Muhammad did not exist, then there’s no reason to be a Muslim’
……………
He said it…
mortimer says
Exactly. Now that Shabir Ally has made such a challenging remark, he will have to follow through and leave Islam when the historical truth is uncovered piece by piece and fitted together.
Now more than ever before, the historicity of Mohammed is coming apart, as ancient references from many non-Islamic sources (as far away as China) show that the Arabs had different political leaders than the ones mentioned in the hadiths and Sira. Even much of the hadiths and Sira are demonstrably false, since they are filled with parallel accounts with contradictory details and much anachronism. The writers of Islamic histories wrote their accounts very late and did not know how people lived 200 years earlier or where they lived.
As the accounts grew, they went from sparse details to plentiful, suggesting that most of the accounts were the result of fertile imaginations.
The chief problem for Islamic historicity is that all the evidence points to the foundation of Islam taking place far to the north of Medina and not in southern Arabia. Not at all.
Meccan does not even appear on a map until 110 years after the supposed death of Mohammed … if such a man even existed. It seems Mohammed is no more real than James Bond, Beowulf, Robin Hood or King Arthur.
Ecosse1314 says
*1
Jayell says
‘If the prophet Muhammad did not exist, then there’s no reason to be a Muslim’ – unless you want an excuse for repulsively reprehensible behaviour and primeval morals that allow you to order your life to the basest of base standards.
jule says
I do not think this will work for Muslims. They will think its Satan’s trick or just a test to their loyalty. It might work on a few women but they would fear beatings or death & no one takes them seriously period. Think if you tried to make a Christian think jesus did not exist? Would that work? I don’t think so. Belief like that goes very deep into iidentity and purpose of life. Facts don’t matter much to ‘Belief’. Still, its worth bringing it out. Maybe young western raised kids might Think more.
gravenimage says
+1
Halal Bacon says
If the prophet Muhammad did not exist and even if he did, then there’s no reason kill people in his name’
mortimer says
Without a historical Mohammed, JIHADISM collapses. The jihadists are imitating a non-historical myth.
Aussie Infidel says
Halal Bacon, But, we must get our priorities right. Fitna is worse than killing! (Quran 2:191).
BlackSabbath says
If muhammad did not exist, then there is no reason to be a moslem. If he did exist, then there is even more reason not to be moslem.
Wellington says
Agreed. Whichever, a total negative.
gravenimage says
Brilliant, BlackSabbath!
tim gallagher says
Damned right, BlackSabbath. Because, if he did exist, he was such a lowlife scumbag who gave his followers the lowest, most evil of examples for a human being to follow.
James Lincoln says
BlackSabbath,
You just hit a homerun!
Wellington says
I sometimes sense Islam is collapsing like a house of cards. It simply can’t stand up to the scrutiny of modern historiography and technology, let alone sheer common sense and decency. Best for all mankind if this occurs, though ignorance is a very powerful phenomenon in man’s history. Still is. Islam’s continued existence confirms this troubling reality as does the existence of man’s newest totalitarian ideology, Western Leftism, which is really just failed Marxism warmed over and given a different nomenclature.
In any case, destroy Mohammed, whether real or unreal, and you destroy the most malevolently influential religion of all time. Way, way overdue I would contend. Delenda est Mohammed—whether the bastard is fact or fiction.
mortimer says
Damned, if Mohammed did exist (because so vicious) and damned, if he did not exist for the same reason.
jimjfox says
We all pray that Islam collapses under the weight of evidence & real science, but for that to happen two things are necessary. First, Muslims must be persuaded to question their beliefs and second, the loony left must wake up to the real World along with the Woke wank#*s in their fantasy wonderland.
James Lincoln says
Wellington says,
“…Western Leftism, which is really just failed Marxism warmed over and given a different nomenclature.”
Yes, warmed over.
Makes me think of Neal Page’s (Steve Martin) lasagna in “planes trains and automobiles” (1987)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztbHu8PMMzU&t=74s
Wellington says
Thanks for the link, James. Really like that movie Not a big Steve Martin fan but in this movie he and John Candy are perfect together and at times the film is hilarious and at other times quite poignant.
tim gallagher says
Spot on, Shabir Ali. Muhammad didn’t exist and thus,obviously, his loony and horrendous version of what god is supposed to be like, called allah, doesn’t exist. Time to pack up and desert islam. 1400 years of this bullshit religion being inflicted on humanity is way, way too long. Leave this delusional creed, based on nothing but lies. It’s the right thing to do.
mortimer says
Morally, Islam is vicious, brutal and sadistic and historically, Islam is increasingly in shreds.
There is no good reason to become or to remain Muslim.
tim gallagher says
Here’s hoping many Muslims do wake up and leave islam, mortimer. I’d love to at least the early stages of islam’s being reduced to shreds. It would be a wonderful, very constructive thing for all of mankind.
jule says
Just telling them that is not nearly enough to end Islam but it is a crack to the thing. When i read the Qur’an, I thought “this is just a Warlord Manual for conquest, power and complete control of its members to do the dirty work.” For that, the men mostly, get perks & honor. Martyrs families get money. Its more for Warlords than Allah though Allah is the back up, the excuse. The system is built on fear and terror for the members too. Public whippings, executions, even crucifiction & stoning still done in some back countries. Fear and Terror plus everyone around them Believes. Its taken for granted as they grow up. I am not putting down a book with facts or statements by a few Muslims who question because its a start but a long way from changing an Identity. They would wonder what would they call themselves if not a Muslim which gives them a feeling of safety and belonging to the Ummah.
tim gallagher says
I think what you say there is right, jule. islam seems to all be built on bullying and terrorising people. As you say, well, this could be a bit of a “crack to the thing”, this evil,barbaric thing called Islam. I suspect it will take a long time to see islam fall apart, but it would be great to see this disgusting, vicious ideology begin to go into decline. I see Islam as some kind of backward, primitive religious ideology which certainly should have gone ages ago and which definitely does not belong in the modern world.
Ade Fegan says
Islamic apologist Shabir Ally:
‘If the prophet Muhammad did not exist, then there’s no reason to be a Muslim’
By Jove I think he got it
Ade Fegan says
The cross and “muhammad” (the praised / blessed one”) appear on the early coins
This ties in nicely with the theory that mohammad is actually christ
gravenimage says
Not really, Ade. Coins typically showed the ruler, not Jesus. Besides, Mohammad has *nothing* in common with the character of Christ.
Ade Fegan says
OK, so the koran tells us to kill you
but hey, look how bad Stalin and Pol Pot were !
Jim says
It might be that if M did not exist, then Muslims would be free to re-imagine Islam in a more humane way, and then the historical Mohammed would not stand in the way of reformation. They could throw out all the terrible things that M supposedly did and create a mythical M who was more in tune with modern ideas of justice and truth. The historical M would take a subordinate role behind the new revelations of enlightened modern theologians. But of course the jihadi elites of the Muslims would lose power and influence in this case and would fight back to retain the historical M that they accept as the truth and standard of moral, ethical behavior.