The challenges ahead for interim Haitian Prime Minister Garry Conille are enormous
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
The challenges ahead for interim Haitian Prime Minister Garry Conille are enormous.
PRIME MINISTER GARRY CONILLE: Gangs control 80% of the capitol, but not only that, we have close to 600,000 displaced people, 45% of food insecure. We're looking at cholera in parts of the country.
FADEL: Conille is a longtime U.N. development expert, who briefly served as prime minister of Haiti in 2011 and 2012. Just over a month ago, he moved back to take on the position again. His mandate is to lift the country out of violence and pave the way for elections in less than two years. He says he believes it's possible to take the capital back from gangs because of the resilience and commitment of the Haitian people.
CONILLE: At the end of the day, this is 12,000 thugs that are holding 12 million people hostage.
FADEL: We sat down with Prime Minister Conille in Washington, D.C., yesterday after his meeting with Secretary of State Antony Blinken. I started by asking him about the concerns around the Kenyan police, who are leading the multinational force preparing to take to the streets of Port-au-Prince.
There is concern that the international community in Haiti is depending on a force that's accused of gross human rights violations within their own country - extrajudicial killings, killings of antigovernment protesters. Amnesty International has called on the U.S., Haiti and the international community to put safeguards in place so this doesn't happen to your people. Are those safeguards in place? And what are they?
CONILLE: Well, there's a series of instruments that we're in the process of finalizing with the Kenyan government to assure that there is accountability and a certain level of oversight, including a desk that will be responsible for overseeing much of the operations. The accompaniment that we're expecting from the forces is going to be really in support of the Haitian National Police, and we're hoping that that will limit, to a certain extent, the possibility of having these types of excesses that, of course, we all rightfully worry about. Where we are now, we think that this accompaniment, not just from the Kenyans but all from the other countries that will be part of the force, is an essential part of our response.
FADEL: Can I ask who's in charge of the multinational force? And how does that work? When you talk about accountability, will that be through the Haitian police, the Haitian government, an international body?
CONILLE: These are the things we're actually thinking through in a very careful and deliberate way. Obviously, as I said, the main purpose of the mission is to support the Haitian police, which will have the lead in most operations.
FADEL: Was this discussed with the secretary of state?
CONILLE: Yes, it was, among other things. Yes.
FADEL: Among other things. What was the main takeaway there? I mean, also with funding, I know there's $600 million needed for this yearlong mission. Have you gotten what you need in terms of funding?
CONILLE: That and - well, what we got and we're very happy with is the commitment of the U.S. government to continue to support us and to continue to work with our other partners to make sure we have the resources we need to be effective.
FADEL: I think I've asked you multiple times about the Kenyan forces, in part because of the history in Haiti when - at times, where international intervention hasn't made things better. Will it be different this time?
CONILLE: There have certainly been shortfalls historically. And my sense is we've learned from these lessons. And what we're trying to do now is we make sure we don't make the same mistakes. This is why these forces will be more limited in scope. They're really here to work with, support the Haitian National Police.
FADEL: A part of the reason that Haiti is in this situation is because of the political class, who depended on different gangs to go after their opponents. So how do you dismantle the power these gangs have consolidated? You talked about, as you described, the 12,000 thugs holding the Haitians hostage.
CONILLE: Haiti will not be the first country to deal with excessive gangs - Jamaica in the 1970s and '80s, Salvador, Colombia and so forth. We have quite a lot of good practices in terms of how we deal with these types of situations. And obviously, it requires an integrated and multisectoral approach, including, of course, a strong police force, but also reintegration, disarmament, other types of incentives, social programs. Now, the challenge has been, of course, that this gang expansion is happening in a moment where you have a fragile state with really weak institutions.
FADEL: The transitional council you lead is mandated to hold elections in February 2026. How do you deliver elections when there's no security, a decimated infrastructure and Haitians who are really just trying to survive the day rather than thinking about the future?
CONILLE: That's the challenge, and this is why we're here. And I think we're getting support from our partners and friends so we can increase their capacity to actually operate. We think we can mobilize the population around solutions that make sense. We're hoping to have very serious gains in terms of security very quickly. But please do remember that two-thirds of the country - close to 10 million Haitians - live in circumstances that are relatively peaceful. And these Haitians also are deserving of, you know, elections. They're deserving of good governance.
FADEL: And what do you say to the Haitian population who had lost faith in the political leadership of Ariel Henry? And, in part, that created an opening for what happened. I know you were prime minister before, 10 years ago. You take it on in a very different time. What do you say to them about your leadership and the path forward?
CONILLE: I would argue that - not just me - but we've been able to mobilize some incredible men and women that have left very secure jobs to risk their lives to be able to move us forward. For the first time, we have this detente and relationship between the different political parties that have agreed to this transitional process. Key to the success of this - because you're right in saying that this is a population that's lost trust in its leadership - its to manage its expectations. It's to be extremely transparent on what we think we can achieve.
FADEL: I heard you talk about the risk you and others are taking in going into this position. I do want to ask why. I mean, the list of what you have to accomplish, it can feel overwhelming, I imagine. I mean, why did you take this risk, leave a secure job and do this?
CONILLE: I can tell you my wife and my daughter has asked me the same question every day. But it is that time, and it's a small price to pay. Most of what we have and who we are is because of the sacrifice of these Haitian people. It's time to pay back. That's my best answer.
FADEL: I see you getting emotional.
CONILLE: It's been quite unfair that for decades, the Haitian people have not had leadership that reflects their courage, that reflects their generosity and certainly their commitment to hard work and change. And so it's a very, very small price for us to pay today to give a little bit back to a community that suffered so much. So when the time came, there was very little hesitation for us to do this. It's not only a decision I made. It's a decision that several others that are in government with us right now have also made. We think this is a critical moment for us in our history where we need to come together, and we're ready to do it.
FADEL: Prime Minister, thank you for your time.
CONILLE: Thank you very much.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
FADEL: That was interim Haitian Prime Minister Garry Conille.
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